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good morning everybody ladies and

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gentlemen welcome to the program I am

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your host Chris George Zuger and you

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have entered the den of lore pull your

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chair up to the fire grab your glass of

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coffee because it's seven o'clock in the

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morning here on the eastern seaboard

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and because we're to learn some cool

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stuff tonight courtesy of one of the

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world's greatest historians mr. David

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Rohl and again if you like the show and

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want to support independent broadcasting

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supports of patreon.com forward slash

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den of lore and for as little as $1 a

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month you can ensure that this free show

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stays free of obnoxious ads and random

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companies trying to sell you the latest

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snake oil now there's ton of perks to be

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on the show such as a shout out from the

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top of the program and this week I'd

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like to be able to thank Pat from

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Brooklyn our den mother Ellen mrs. Fox

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Joshua mattock Sharon Stewart and Shafa

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and as always I should say us normally

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as always we normally have a segment at

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the top of the program I am actually to

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be cutting that segment out because we

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have a lot of information to get through

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and if you can't get through it all I

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mean we may just need to do a second

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show so I am going to quickly welcome

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our guest onto the program mr. David

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roll let me just get you onto the hard

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camera here David how are you doing -

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this morning or this afternoon I'm doing

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great yeah afternoon Chris and it's it's

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actually morning to you and afternoon

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here yes you're right so while our UK

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and European people will be probably

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just having their lunch about now they

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are that was kind of the idea that they

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had said that I can actually watch the

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program this morning instead of you know

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usual midnight the benefits of a six

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hour time difference absolutely I love

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the pershing cat i yes she is quite some

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she a Russian blue or a Persian she's

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Russian

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ah okay very very vocal very very loving

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she's kind of the mascot of the program

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a timing was perfect

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hers yes she knows him on the show she

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actually even she broke into the studio

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by opening my sliding door that I have

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locked which I don't know how she did

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but she just wanted to be part of the

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show right so today's subject work this

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this is a subject that you have had

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multiple or at least several lectures on

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over the last a year or so and I know

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that it's not necessarily something that

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has been widely discussed on any of your

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specials which is with regards to your

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research on early Christianity and the

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Holy Grail right it's it's not my normal

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subject of course my numbers subject is

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ancient Egypt and the Bible but I love

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legends and I like to explore legends

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and see what the historical basis of

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that legends are and that's really what

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this is all about well those are two is

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some of some of the most widely known

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legends especially when we're talking

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about early Christianity the Bible

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obviously has billions of copies printed

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worldwide followed by Christianity is

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followed by a billion people a billion

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billion followers all around the world

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so it's it you know a legend a story a

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myth you know historical fact it's

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something that is very widely known if

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not one of the most widely known legends

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on the planet today that's true I would

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say though that you have to treat the

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Bible it's a mighty treat any ancient

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document it was written in the ancient

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world there's no reason why we should

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treat it as a special document there's

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no reason to believe that it's any less

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real than any other ancient document we

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have you have to do what you do with any

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document you have to test against the

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factual evidence the archaeological

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evidence the contemporary written

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evidence and if it comes out okay and

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you can trust it if it doesn't and you

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dismiss it hmm and you know there is a

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lot of gonna say not necessarily

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contradictions but there there are a lot

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of historical facts that don't

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necessarily coincide with mm-hmm the

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information that's out there and a lot

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of that is because it's it was so long

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ago and

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the records don't necessarily match up

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with the Mithun and the myth itself has

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been interpreted and translated so many

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times that's true I wouldn't call them

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myths so I think there's a big

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difference between myths and legends

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myths are sort of like the invention of

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the Fertile mind whereas a legend is a

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sort of elaboration upon something that

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actually happened in history so you have

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a basis of history within legend where

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the myth is something more about dragons

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and and things like that it's an

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invented idea a legend is something a

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little bit more solid like Marilyn

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Monroe for instance is a legend but

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doesn't mean she didn't exist this is

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true now the historical you think about

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that well again I was important around

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that time so but yes no there no there

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is actual indisputable proof and video

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evidence that she has agrees is frozen

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so me my screen is frozen oh I'm I'm

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your coming through nice and clear on my

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side so much it must just be a glitch in

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the intertubes now speaking of like one

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of the biggest myths is the location of

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the actual crucifixion I know that this

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was kind of a starting point or at least

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a one good starting point is the

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location because the the Church of the

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Holy Sepulchre has the amount of

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Golgotha on it which is supposed to be

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the traditional site of the crucifixion

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but there are a multitude of differing

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sites and opinions on what site may

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actually be the proper location for that

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crucifixion sure I mean there really are

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two main candidates I suppose you have

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the Holy Sepulchre you also have this

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thing called the garden to which a lot

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of Evangelicals

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Christians go to when they go to

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Jerusalem not necessarily because they

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believe it's the actual place but it

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creates the atmosphere that you would

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imagine for a Christ burial and whereas

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the Holy Sepulchre is a bit of a

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supermarket full of people I mean it's

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just a heaving mass of humanity when you

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go there unless you're very lucky to go

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on a very quiet period so you don't

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really get the great atmosphere in the

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Holy Sepulchre but at their gardens who

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must a sort of a more spiritual aspect

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to it and it's attractive to a lot of

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people Angelica Christians though

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neither of those places are correct

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though as far as I'm

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we have a new candidate now which has

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been looked at by a number of scholars

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and it's very very fascinating it ties

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in a great deal more with the the Old

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Testament and the reasons why Christ

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would have been executed on this

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particular spot and why he was very

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close by and it's not to the west of the

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temple and it's not to the north of the

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templates actually to the east of the

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temple I suppose the best way I could

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demonstrate that is visually if I can do

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that

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can I um can I share my screen and I'll

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put on a few pictures so you can

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actually see what I'm talking about

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would that be okay you can I have you on

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on the big monitor so you were oh you're

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good to go

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let me see if I can actually find a way

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to do that I'm gonna say I can't

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actually find oh there we go I can see

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my share now share screen let's see if

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this works so can you see my screen now

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I can everybody else yet good well let's

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just look at a couple of images here the

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first one obviously is to see the date

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we're looking around ad 28 so this is

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what Jerusalem looked like around that

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period you've got them the garden team

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is up to the north there to the north of

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the temple and the Holy Sepulcher is to

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the west as you can see by the arrow

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neither of those are really in the right

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location the place that everybody's

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looking or not everybody well our number

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of scholars looking now is over in the

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Mount of Olives and there's good reasons

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for that so if we go to the reason why

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the garden tomb has been so popular with

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E is this because of course of Gordon

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General Gordon who actually was in

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Jerusalem in 1882 83 and he wrote her a

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book on the subject and he chose this

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particular place if I go into full

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screen here you can see he was actually

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sitting on the balcony of his hotel

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north of the Damascus Gate and he's

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drinking his gin or whatever his

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favorite tipple was and he saw this and

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he saw that we looked very much like a

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skull to him and I'm sure that's what

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everybody thinks it is but when you get

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up close it doesn't actually look like

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that

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and so the name Golgotha which is

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mentioned in the Bible which means the

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skull it was an obvious link but of

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course gold gutter or Golgotha is an

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Aramaic word and it does mean skull but

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it also

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means cranium it's a different idea

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entirely if we go to the word Calvary

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that come from Latin calvaria

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which is the translation of the Greek

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cranium now quran eon is where we get

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our word cranium from so in fact most of

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these texts these ancient texts

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including the aramaic are referring to a

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cranium rather than a skull and a

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cranium is the top of your head the top

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of the skull so we're looking for

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entirely differentiate we're not

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actually looking for something that

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looks like a skull and if you go into

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the garden tomb and you look at the

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burial site it's very clear that they

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are not table burials which you would

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expect from the time of Jesus they're

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actually sarcophagi or much much earlier

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sarcophagi from an earlier period so the

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archaeological date for this complex

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here is 10th century BC which is a lot

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like early obviously a thousand years

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before the time of Jesus so it doesn't

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work so if we look at the Temple Mount

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itself and here's the model that you

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find if you go to the Israeli Museum in

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in Jerusalem this is the modern you see

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there and you'll notice there's a gate

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placed in this model which is

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immediately to the east of the temple

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itself that is the temple of Herod

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well that gate doesn't exist I mean

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nobody's ever found a gate there at all

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there was no central gate in the Eastern

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War in fact if you look at it today the

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only gate we have in the eastern wall is

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what we call the Golden Gate or the

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eastern gate and if you look at that and

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you compare the distances from there

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where the Dome of the rock is where the

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presumed temple site was that's what

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most people put it and you have the

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Golden Gate in fact we're talking about

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a very very long distance in in terms of

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meters it's about 110 meters to the

271
00:10:32,290 --> 00:10:29,900
north so it doesn't line up at all with

272
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:32,300
the temple and that meant that people

273
00:10:35,410 --> 00:10:33,410
were beginning to look at this

274
00:10:37,510 --> 00:10:35,420
possibility of actually located samples

275
00:10:38,980 --> 00:10:37,520
somewhere else and professor Asher

276
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:38,990
Kaufman came up with a theory which i

277
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:41,090
think is very solid we look at the

278
00:10:44,980 --> 00:10:42,770
Temple Mount today on a plan you have

279
00:10:47,290 --> 00:10:44,990
all these main features young the Alaska

280
00:10:48,670 --> 00:10:47,300
ask the dome with a rock and the Golden

281
00:10:51,790 --> 00:10:48,680
Gate you can see the misalignment

282
00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:51,800
between the Golden Gate and the Dome of

283
00:10:55,450 --> 00:10:52,670
the rock there

284
00:10:57,370 --> 00:10:55,460
what Asher Kaufman did was placed the

285
00:10:59,050 --> 00:10:57,380
Herod's temple there which is to the

286
00:11:03,840 --> 00:10:59,060
north of the Dome of the Loch but you'll

287
00:11:06,330 --> 00:11:03,850
see it doesn't line up at all with

288
00:11:08,850 --> 00:11:06,340
the Golden Gate it's just to the lineup

289
00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:08,860
is just to the south of Golden Gate and

290
00:11:13,470 --> 00:11:11,470
interestingly enough that golden geta

291
00:11:15,180 --> 00:11:13,480
course is fairly late so the Holy of

292
00:11:17,220 --> 00:11:15,190
Holies that you see in that temple line

293
00:11:18,270 --> 00:11:17,230
up there is actually a location on the

294
00:11:20,580 --> 00:11:18,280
Temple Mount which a lot of people

295
00:11:22,410 --> 00:11:20,590
ignore it's this place called the Dome

296
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:22,420
of the tablets the couple o Allah WA and

297
00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:25,210
that is actually it means the Dome of

298
00:11:29,610 --> 00:11:27,910
the tablets and it covers as a part of

299
00:11:31,620 --> 00:11:29,620
the Temple Mount whether it's actually

300
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:31,630
the the foundation or the rock surface

301
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:34,240
is beneath that dome it's one of the few

302
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:35,680
places that you actually see the rock

303
00:11:41,490 --> 00:11:37,690
surface there and if you go to your East

304
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:41,500
from there past the Golden Gate you end

305
00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:43,810
up on the Mount of Olives with that

306
00:11:48,060 --> 00:11:46,480
church spire up there so it's all

307
00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:48,070
aligned for something quite different

308
00:11:53,730 --> 00:11:50,110
and so we go to Professor James tables

309
00:11:55,620 --> 00:11:53,740
work and and what he did was he he also

310
00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:55,630
brought to attention the fact that

311
00:12:01,140 --> 00:11:58,090
explora calls James Fleming discovered

312
00:12:03,270 --> 00:12:01,150
the original eastern gate in 1969 which

313
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:03,280
wasn't exactly where the Golden Gate was

314
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:05,530
it's actually slightly to the south and

315
00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:07,810
he was wandering around there on it on

316
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:09,790
it after a storm and he he fell down a

317
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:11,920
hole and he found the arch of the old

318
00:12:16,890 --> 00:12:14,170
day old gate the old eastern gate with

319
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:16,900
bones actually all under the surface

320
00:12:21,390 --> 00:12:19,330
there and that was the original gate the

321
00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:21,400
Solomonic gate that would have gone and

322
00:12:25,770 --> 00:12:22,690
would have been used in Herod's time

323
00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:25,780
which is exactly aligned with that

324
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:27,910
alignment we showed you with the temple

325
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:30,130
location so it's slightly to the south

326
00:12:34,650 --> 00:12:33,370
of the of the Golden Gate there she

327
00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:34,660
Golden Gate on an old black-and-white

328
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:37,620
photograph and it takes us well up the

329
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:39,910
amount of Olives the actual Garden of

330
00:12:44,940 --> 00:12:42,490
Gethsemane is too low to be the site of

331
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:44,950
the of the garden because it's well

332
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:47,650
below the temple itself it's actually

333
00:12:51,420 --> 00:12:50,050
down in the Kidron Valley it's under it

334
00:12:53,550 --> 00:12:51,430
that's not where it shall be so if we

335
00:12:56,130 --> 00:12:53,560
put our our locations here there's the

336
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:56,140
guard to get cemani and there is that

337
00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:58,000
little dome the dome of the tablets

338
00:13:01,710 --> 00:12:59,440
which would be the Holy of Holies of

339
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:01,720
both the Herodian temple and the

340
00:13:06,570 --> 00:13:04,570
Solomonic temple and we see the Golden

341
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:06,580
Gate there look whether it due east is

342
00:13:10,770 --> 00:13:08,890
it runs directly to the south of the

343
00:13:13,890 --> 00:13:10,780
Golden Gate where that older gate is

344
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:13,900
located and it takes us to another Olive

345
00:13:17,340 --> 00:13:16,240
Garden which is higher up the Mount of

346
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:17,350
Olives

347
00:13:21,540 --> 00:13:18,850
and right next to that is a very

348
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:21,550
important location which many people

349
00:13:25,079 --> 00:13:23,290
don't go to it's got something called

350
00:13:27,180 --> 00:13:25,089
the Chapel of the Ascension and it's

351
00:13:29,790 --> 00:13:27,190
supposed to the place where Christ rose

352
00:13:32,340 --> 00:13:29,800
to heaven after the crucifixion

353
00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:32,350
obviously so they're all integrated to

354
00:13:37,079 --> 00:13:34,990
this Eastern axis of the original

355
00:13:39,660 --> 00:13:37,089
Solomonic temple and that's where the

356
00:13:41,309 --> 00:13:39,670
strength of the argument is big you know

357
00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:41,319
did the Ascension take place at the site

358
00:13:45,780 --> 00:13:43,540
of the crucifixion most likely it did

359
00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:45,790
and this is where it comes into the

360
00:13:49,620 --> 00:13:47,110
really important stuff which is the

361
00:13:52,139 --> 00:13:49,630
Roman laws on execution which very few

362
00:13:54,420 --> 00:13:52,149
people were aware of first law and

363
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:54,430
execution by crucifixion for enemies of

364
00:13:59,249 --> 00:13:56,170
the state should take place at the scene

365
00:14:02,490 --> 00:13:59,259
of the crime so in other words where was

366
00:14:03,870 --> 00:14:02,500
Jesus crime that he was convicted of and

367
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:03,880
that was when he came down the Mount of

368
00:14:08,220 --> 00:14:05,440
Olives on the on the donkey

369
00:14:12,420 --> 00:14:08,230
to enter that I know on on Palm Sunday

370
00:14:14,249 --> 00:14:12,430
to enter the temple ii so there's what

371
00:14:16,889 --> 00:14:14,259
you've got it's Palm Sunday coming to

372
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:16,899
the temple down that hill from from the

373
00:14:20,939 --> 00:14:18,639
the top of the hill down into the temple

374
00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:20,949
and he came from Bethany which we know

375
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:22,569
is located on the other side of the

376
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:24,370
Mount of Olives which is to the east and

377
00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:27,730
then the other law that we have is an

378
00:14:31,379 --> 00:14:29,889
execution by crucifixion should took

379
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:31,389
plate take place at the scene of the

380
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:33,250
arrest where was the arrest

381
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:34,930
well the Gardner Gethsemane on the Mount

382
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:37,440
of Olives so both of these Roman laws

383
00:14:42,809 --> 00:14:39,970
focuses on the Mount of Olives and that

384
00:14:44,670 --> 00:14:42,819
particular location so the arrest took

385
00:14:46,620 --> 00:14:44,680
place at the Garden of Gethsemane so

386
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:46,630
everything is pointing to the fact that

387
00:14:50,850 --> 00:14:49,120
that's where the Romans would have made

388
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:50,860
the execution the crucifixion and

389
00:14:55,710 --> 00:14:53,170
therefore the tomb of Jesus must be very

390
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:55,720
close by so I'll come out of this now so

391
00:15:00,720 --> 00:14:57,490
we can talk in that's the basic theory

392
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:00,730
behind it and if I get back to sharing

393
00:15:05,389 --> 00:15:03,570
take the shearing off now

394
00:15:09,230 --> 00:15:05,399
let's get see if you can still see me

395
00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:09,240
again how's that now yeah perfect so

396
00:15:14,180 --> 00:15:11,910
that's the general argument about where

397
00:15:16,249 --> 00:15:14,190
the crucifixion took place an

398
00:15:17,660 --> 00:15:16,259
interesting enough if you if you stand

399
00:15:19,879 --> 00:15:17,670
on that location and you look back

400
00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:19,889
towards the temple you can actually see

401
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:21,000
where Herod's temple would have been

402
00:15:25,069 --> 00:15:23,250
located the facade of it and one of the

403
00:15:27,019 --> 00:15:25,079
most interesting aspects of the

404
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:27,029
crucifixion this it says when Jesus died

405
00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:29,910
that they looked towards the temple and

406
00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:31,920
the curtain that hat was hanging in

407
00:15:36,079 --> 00:15:33,480
front of the gate the door of the temple

408
00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:36,089
was what rent asunder or torn into now

409
00:15:38,930 --> 00:15:37,649
you can only see that from the Mount of

410
00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:38,940
Olives you can't see that from the

411
00:15:42,290 --> 00:15:40,380
garden tomb you can't see it from the

412
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:42,300
Holy Sepulchre both of the other

413
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:44,250
locations Calvary

414
00:15:48,620 --> 00:15:47,040
or Golgotha so it seems that the cranium

415
00:15:50,930 --> 00:15:48,630
shaped Hill the Mount of Olives is what

416
00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:50,940
they're referring to as the location of

417
00:15:56,660 --> 00:15:53,910
the crucifixion and right nearby is a a

418
00:15:58,340 --> 00:15:56,670
tomb very very close by with one of

419
00:16:01,069 --> 00:15:58,350
those rolling stones that come over the

420
00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:01,079
the entrance and with a standard first

421
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:04,889
century AD burial inside so that is much

422
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:06,480
more likely to be the place where Jesus

423
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:10,560
was buried and what is the the consensus

424
00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:12,690
been from other researchers as far as as

425
00:16:17,690 --> 00:16:14,550
possibility

426
00:16:19,699 --> 00:16:17,700
well it's it's a mainly James Tablas

427
00:16:22,010 --> 00:16:19,709
work in terms of in terms of the

428
00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:22,020
location Goffman for the location of the

429
00:16:26,420 --> 00:16:24,660
temple which the to tie in together it's

430
00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:26,430
that whole idea of the Eastern axis the

431
00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:29,790
the resurrection that takes place there

432
00:16:33,860 --> 00:16:31,830
the ascension takes place there at the

433
00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:33,870
place where the Sun rises and likes the

434
00:16:38,690 --> 00:16:35,940
temple in the mornings and that is all

435
00:16:41,329 --> 00:16:38,700
about this whole idea of Yarra wisdom

436
00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:41,339
which is the light which enters into the

437
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:44,040
Holy of Holies and it seems to be all

438
00:16:48,380 --> 00:16:46,170
fitting together theologically as well

439
00:16:50,780 --> 00:16:48,390
as factually on the basis of Roman law

440
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:50,790
and so the crime is coming from Bethany

441
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:53,010
and the and the arrest is coming from

442
00:16:57,650 --> 00:16:54,959
Gethsemane and they are both located and

443
00:16:59,360 --> 00:16:57,660
on the Mount of Olives what about the

444
00:17:01,070 --> 00:16:59,370
the the cup that was used in the Last

445
00:17:03,410 --> 00:17:01,080
Supper is there something that also that

446
00:17:06,740 --> 00:17:03,420
you've looked into yes absolutely

447
00:17:08,809 --> 00:17:06,750
I was interested in this before I moved

448
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:08,819
to Spain but of course there when I came

449
00:17:12,380 --> 00:17:10,559
to Spain I was able to do a lot more

450
00:17:14,510 --> 00:17:12,390
research on the subject by going to the

451
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:14,520
various places that are mentioned in the

452
00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:16,650
Grail tradition now people think oh hang

453
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:17,040
on a minute

454
00:17:21,380 --> 00:17:19,170
it's an Arthurian tradition but actually

455
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:21,390
there's a very very powerful Romana of

456
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:23,490
Spanish tradition about the Holy Grail

457
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:25,650
which is quite different to the to the

458
00:17:29,630 --> 00:17:26,970
British one they are all British

459
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:29,640
Arthurian legend and so I've been

460
00:17:33,950 --> 00:17:31,679
looking into that and we have a lot of

461
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:33,960
solid evidence for that part of it is

462
00:17:38,030 --> 00:17:36,210
legend part of it is tradition but then

463
00:17:39,980 --> 00:17:38,040
at a certain point in history it starts

464
00:17:41,930 --> 00:17:39,990
become much more factual and

465
00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:41,940
historically based we have documentation

466
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:44,220
we have references in Tacitus for

467
00:17:48,830 --> 00:17:47,250
instance the Roman historian and all

468
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,840
sorts of other evidence that brings us

469
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:50,880
to the conclusion that the the Grail was

470
00:17:56,570 --> 00:17:53,730
in fact a cup it's not the Mary

471
00:17:59,210 --> 00:17:56,580
Magdalene idea although Mary Magdalene

472
00:18:01,130 --> 00:17:59,220
does play a part in the story the Grail

473
00:18:03,530 --> 00:18:01,140
still remains to be the cup of the Last

474
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:03,540
Supper which again on another tradition

475
00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:05,910
supposedly where the blood of Christ was

476
00:18:10,460 --> 00:18:07,860
collected off the cross by Joseph

477
00:18:13,460 --> 00:18:10,470
Arimathea with the same using the same

478
00:18:15,650 --> 00:18:13,470
cup the question is of course that Last

479
00:18:18,919 --> 00:18:15,660
Supper where did it take place we know

480
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:18,929
it was in a building in Jerusalem but

481
00:18:22,730 --> 00:18:20,250
who owned that building it's never

482
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:22,740
mentioned in in the New Testament as to

483
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:24,960
who owned the building and it's very

484
00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:26,250
likely it would have been someone that

485
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:27,929
jesus knew that

486
00:18:33,289 --> 00:18:30,240
a close ally friend perhaps a relative

487
00:18:36,379 --> 00:18:33,299
even and it just so happens that Joseph

488
00:18:40,419 --> 00:18:36,389
Arimathea was Jesus's great-uncle he was

489
00:18:42,739 --> 00:18:40,429
the brother of the father of Mary so he

490
00:18:45,609 --> 00:18:42,749
he would have very it was a very wealthy

491
00:18:48,169 --> 00:18:45,619
tin merchant and he would have had a

492
00:18:50,989 --> 00:18:48,179
residence in Jerusalem and he was a very

493
00:18:53,379 --> 00:18:50,999
strong supporter of Jesus so it looks

494
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:53,389
like maybe the cup that was presented to

495
00:18:58,580 --> 00:18:55,710
Jesus for him to use at the Last Supper

496
00:19:01,100 --> 00:18:58,590
was some of the best household crockery

497
00:19:03,919 --> 00:19:01,110
if you like of Josh Rimer theory to his

498
00:19:07,549 --> 00:19:03,929
Jerusalem residence and so I looked into

499
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:07,559
that and the best candidate for that

500
00:19:11,269 --> 00:19:09,090
particular cup is one that was actually

501
00:19:13,999 --> 00:19:11,279
made in that era in the first century AD

502
00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:14,009
and that's the famous santo caliz which

503
00:19:19,249 --> 00:19:16,499
is now in Valencia Cathedral which is a

504
00:19:21,889 --> 00:19:19,259
red agate cup and it's very a very

505
00:19:26,299 --> 00:19:21,899
simple cup today it's adorned with

506
00:19:29,539 --> 00:19:26,309
Byzantine gold chalice metalwork and and

507
00:19:31,850 --> 00:19:29,549
jewelry semi-precious stones but in in

508
00:19:35,269 --> 00:19:31,860
the first century AD it was a simple red

509
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:35,279
agate stone Cup agate is the translucent

510
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:37,740
stone so if you put a candle inside it

511
00:19:42,259 --> 00:19:39,450
you can see through it it's a very

512
00:19:43,549 --> 00:19:42,269
beautiful this is a simple thing and we

513
00:19:43,930 --> 00:19:43,559
know it was made somewhere in the Middle

514
00:19:47,779 --> 00:19:43,940
East

515
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:47,789
possibly Alexandria possibly Damascus

516
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:50,490
possibly Antioch one of those locations

517
00:19:54,529 --> 00:19:52,799
where the craftsmanship that we see in

518
00:19:56,779 --> 00:19:54,539
that cup has been tested and looked up

519
00:19:58,460 --> 00:19:56,789
by specialists however agreed that it is

520
00:20:01,100 --> 00:19:58,470
first century and it was made in the

521
00:20:02,810 --> 00:20:01,110
Middle East so it fits the bill as being

522
00:20:05,570 --> 00:20:02,820
the sort of thing that Joseph would have

523
00:20:07,580 --> 00:20:05,580
had in his household and the type of

524
00:20:10,239 --> 00:20:07,590
thing that Jesus might have used and it

525
00:20:12,529 --> 00:20:10,249
has a tradition it's a long tradition

526
00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:12,539
first of all it starts in Britain with

527
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:14,580
the Joseph bringing that cup to

528
00:20:20,090 --> 00:20:18,210
Glastonbury obviously if he was the

529
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:20,100
owner of the building and it was his cup

530
00:20:24,769 --> 00:20:22,110
they related to Christ then it would

531
00:20:27,769 --> 00:20:24,779
have been him who possessed it who had

532
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:27,779
that relic all the way through and we

533
00:20:31,789 --> 00:20:29,970
all know the tradition of the Joseph

534
00:20:34,129 --> 00:20:31,799
coming to Glastonbury with the the

535
00:20:35,869 --> 00:20:34,139
so-called Holy Grail what happens to

536
00:20:38,090 --> 00:20:35,879
after that is the interesting part and

537
00:20:41,860 --> 00:20:38,100
that's an another story but somehow or

538
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:41,870
other from there and in this tradition

539
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:44,330
ends up in Rome and when we get it to

540
00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:46,370
Rome then that cop starts become

541
00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:48,470
historical we have documentation for it

542
00:20:52,150 --> 00:20:50,390
and and that's the sort of thing we can

543
00:20:53,799 --> 00:20:52,160
get into more detail although I can tell

544
00:20:55,930 --> 00:20:53,809
you the story of how he got to Rome

545
00:20:58,870 --> 00:20:55,940
according to the legends a contradiction

546
00:21:00,760 --> 00:20:58,880
canto British tradition and it does tie

547
00:21:04,330 --> 00:21:00,770
in very nicely with reports from people

548
00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:04,340
like gild us the the famous British monk

549
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:06,980
is storing the 5th 6th century AD who

550
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:09,440
actually mentions a Joseph coming to to

551
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:12,890
Britain at that time and he says it was

552
00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:16,010
in the 37th year of Tiberius the alberto

553
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:18,470
beerus and we know exactly what year

554
00:21:25,450 --> 00:21:21,710
that was so we can tie all that in with

555
00:21:26,770 --> 00:21:25,460
a chronology of the period so we can we

556
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:26,780
can look at some visuals for that if you

557
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:29,210
like or you can ask me questions and we

558
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,650
can go through it in more detail well

559
00:21:34,030 --> 00:21:32,000
I'd say let's look at some visuals

560
00:21:35,860 --> 00:21:34,040
because we do have this fantastic

561
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:35,870
internet connection that's working today

562
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:38,690
so all right ok well let me pop on put

563
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:40,850
on some more material and please a look

564
00:21:44,340 --> 00:21:42,710
at and it's coming through clear is it

565
00:21:46,750 --> 00:21:44,350
for is coming through nice and clear

566
00:21:50,890 --> 00:21:46,760
okay well that's just share screen again

567
00:21:52,750 --> 00:21:50,900
and I'll take you to let me tell me take

568
00:21:54,940 --> 00:21:52,760
you through to a place where we can

569
00:21:57,070 --> 00:21:54,950
start this story I'll skip the Mary

570
00:21:58,540 --> 00:21:57,080
Magdalene stuff I can do that later on

571
00:22:01,919 --> 00:21:58,550
if you like let's take you to

572
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:03,659
so this is the story of Joseph Joseph of

573
00:22:07,639 --> 00:22:06,159
Arimathea and what I'll do is I'll

574
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:07,649
quickly go through this with you

575
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:09,970
although otherwise I'm seeing you I'm

576
00:22:16,019 --> 00:22:12,730
not seeing the video you're not okay

577
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:16,029
that is oh I didn't start sharing I'm

578
00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:17,039
sorry to my fault

579
00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:19,440
could you see you to my screen now I

580
00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:23,590
cannot okay try again now they work

581
00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:26,289
there we go okay let's go back to play

582
00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:29,230
here so we're talking about a date of

583
00:22:35,129 --> 00:22:33,100
around AD 37 okay that's when this is

584
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:35,139
all kicking off Jorge reading about a

585
00:22:38,489 --> 00:22:36,850
year after landing Provence with Mary

586
00:22:39,389 --> 00:22:38,499
Magdalene I can go back to that store if

587
00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:39,399
you want to deal with it

588
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:41,470
he built a wattle and daub Chapel

589
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:43,450
dedicated to Mary magnetic last embry

590
00:22:47,609 --> 00:22:45,330
which is part of the British legend

591
00:22:49,649 --> 00:22:47,619
Joseph brought the Holy Grail with him

592
00:22:51,299 --> 00:22:49,659
to Britain again part of the legend that

593
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:51,309
began converting the Britons to

594
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:53,710
Christianity now that's really as far as

595
00:22:57,180 --> 00:22:56,080
our story goes with with Joe so we don't

596
00:22:59,879 --> 00:22:57,190
know anymore after that the grill

597
00:23:02,039 --> 00:22:59,889
disappears from British tradition but we

598
00:23:05,999 --> 00:23:02,049
can trace it through a particular line

599
00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:06,009
of British Kings so this is ad 37 this

600
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:08,470
is the the later chapel that was built

601
00:23:13,529 --> 00:23:10,090
on the wattle and daub version that

602
00:23:15,539 --> 00:23:13,539
Joseph built in Glastonbury and even in

603
00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:15,549
guilders as I mentioned earlier this is

604
00:23:20,669 --> 00:23:17,769
what Gilda said about it and he's our

605
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:20,679
early medieval historian British you

606
00:23:25,230 --> 00:23:23,200
story says the light of Christ shone in

607
00:23:28,769 --> 00:23:25,240
Britain in the last year of emperor

608
00:23:30,509 --> 00:23:28,779
Tiberius and that is AD 37 and that's

609
00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:30,519
exactly the year that we have the

610
00:23:34,499 --> 00:23:32,230
chronology of Joseph coming to Britain

611
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:34,509
with it with the chalice or with the cup

612
00:23:39,779 --> 00:23:36,970
so it ties into what Gilda says very

613
00:23:42,269 --> 00:23:39,789
nicely now what happens is that he

614
00:23:45,239 --> 00:23:42,279
actually converts that the British king

615
00:23:47,009 --> 00:23:45,249
at the time it was called bran and it's

616
00:23:47,999 --> 00:23:47,019
least later referred to as bran the

617
00:23:51,930 --> 00:23:48,009
blessed because he was the first

618
00:23:54,899 --> 00:23:51,940
Christian King convert of Joseph now

619
00:23:57,239 --> 00:23:54,909
bran marries Anna who is the daughter of

620
00:23:59,310 --> 00:23:57,249
Joseph of Arimathea and he converts to

621
00:24:01,399 --> 00:23:59,320
Christianity so we have a family tie-in

622
00:24:06,090 --> 00:24:01,409
now we're gonna trace that family tree

623
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:06,100
so if we go on it's not for some reason

624
00:24:10,730 --> 00:24:08,910
not working now there we go

625
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:10,740
now interesting enough if anybody an

626
00:24:15,470 --> 00:24:12,810
Americans or Canadians have been to the

627
00:24:16,940 --> 00:24:15,480
Tower of London you'll know that there

628
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:16,950
are Ravens in the Tower of London the

629
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:18,690
famous tradition is that if the Ravens I

630
00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:20,310
believe the Tower of London England will

631
00:24:26,510 --> 00:24:24,030
fall well the word Raven is the same

632
00:24:29,270 --> 00:24:26,520
word in Celtic as bran in fact brand

633
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:29,280
means Raven and the legend says that his

634
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:31,650
head is actually buried in the mound

635
00:24:35,780 --> 00:24:33,690
under the Tower of London that that

636
00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:35,790
green patch you can see behind there the

637
00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:38,220
keeper there there Beefeater so there is

638
00:24:42,590 --> 00:24:40,140
a a legend a British legend a very

639
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:42,600
ancient one that goes to this whole idea

640
00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:44,450
of the first Christian King of Britain

641
00:24:49,130 --> 00:24:47,580
having a relationship with with Joseph

642
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:49,140
of Arimathea and you can see this family

643
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:51,330
lying here if you got Joseph of

644
00:24:54,980 --> 00:24:53,490
Arimathea there who marries an Anna

645
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:54,990
there's lots of Anna's in this story

646
00:25:00,560 --> 00:24:58,050
he is the brother of Joachim and Joachim

647
00:25:02,450 --> 00:25:00,570
and Anna are the parents of Mary the

648
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:02,460
Virgin who is of course the mother of

649
00:25:09,380 --> 00:25:04,880
Jesus now on the other side you have

650
00:25:11,180 --> 00:25:09,390
Joseon Anna Anna and Joseph give birth

651
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:11,190
to a daughter called Anna who marries

652
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:14,370
bran the Blessed and they give birth to

653
00:25:17,570 --> 00:25:16,650
a song called Coeur addict and he

654
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:17,580
marries another Anna

655
00:25:20,780 --> 00:25:19,530
now qur'anic is a very key to this whole

656
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:20,790
story really

657
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:22,890
because qur'anic himself has their three

658
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:25,290
children two of them are gonna follow

659
00:25:29,630 --> 00:25:27,120
through this story one is called Lynn is

660
00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:29,640
a son the other one is called Gladys

661
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:31,860
Gladys is an ancient Celtic word it

662
00:25:36,590 --> 00:25:34,770
means princess and those two figures

663
00:25:38,270 --> 00:25:36,600
actually end up in our story a bit

664
00:25:40,910 --> 00:25:38,280
further down the road but if we follow

665
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,920
the Grail legend the Grail starts with

666
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:42,720
Joseph Arimathea whoops that should

667
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:44,850
happen let me go back just take that

668
00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:47,530
back one I'm just

669
00:25:51,570 --> 00:25:49,240
but those in again I don't know why did

670
00:25:53,970 --> 00:25:51,580
that automatic work sometimes it plays

671
00:25:56,830 --> 00:25:53,980
up I'm just setting it all up for you

672
00:26:03,399 --> 00:26:00,909
is our family tree and there is the

673
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:03,409
Grail legend as it comes through the

674
00:26:08,820 --> 00:26:05,510
British story so you start with Jojo

675
00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:08,830
Arimathea he comes to Britain he

676
00:26:13,870 --> 00:26:12,110
converts bran who is then handed the cup

677
00:26:16,990 --> 00:26:13,880
so it's in the hands of the British

678
00:26:19,630 --> 00:26:17,000
Kings now and brands son-in-law karada

679
00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:19,640
who is his successor is the holder of

680
00:26:23,980 --> 00:26:21,590
the cup and he passes it to his son Lin

681
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:23,990
now that guy Lin is the key to what

682
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:25,490
happens when we get to Rome a little bit

683
00:26:32,830 --> 00:26:28,570
later on so we have this tradition and

684
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:32,840
qur'anic is the famous figure in history

685
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:35,360
called carracticus by the Romans so when

686
00:26:40,570 --> 00:26:37,730
the Romans invade Britain he is actually

687
00:26:41,769 --> 00:26:40,580
the Pendragon or they the main King of

688
00:26:45,070 --> 00:26:41,779
Britain he's the one of the cutter

689
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:45,080
baloney tribe whose capitalists at

690
00:26:53,769 --> 00:26:50,240
Borrelia miyamotoi and he has a famous

691
00:26:57,159 --> 00:26:53,779
battle with the Romans when they arrive

692
00:26:58,779 --> 00:26:57,169
under the under their Emperor which is

693
00:26:59,649 --> 00:26:58,789
Claudius now you don't need to know all

694
00:27:01,899 --> 00:26:59,659
this stuff I'll go through it quickly

695
00:27:05,350 --> 00:27:01,909
this is the line that we have of the

696
00:27:07,769 --> 00:27:05,360
British Kings and they they come from a

697
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:07,779
descended ascent from a king called Lud

698
00:27:12,460 --> 00:27:10,130
and he is about the 4th generation

699
00:27:15,399 --> 00:27:12,470
before chaotic now Lud is where we get

700
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:15,409
our name London from so Lud gate or

701
00:27:19,299 --> 00:27:17,330
Ludgate Circus in London it's named

702
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:19,309
after this King Ludd so he's a

703
00:27:22,990 --> 00:27:20,690
historical figure you could see there

704
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:23,000
even Koren's of some of these guys if we

705
00:27:28,659 --> 00:27:25,760
tie them into the Joseph line you can

706
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:28,669
see here that King brands son is King

707
00:27:32,889 --> 00:27:31,010
Lear and he's the famous King Lear of

708
00:27:34,990 --> 00:27:32,899
Shakespeare and they come down to

709
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:35,000
chaotic and chronic has these two two

710
00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:37,279
children called Gladys who later becomes

711
00:27:42,399 --> 00:27:40,370
Claudia in Rome and Lynn who it becomes

712
00:27:45,340 --> 00:27:42,409
lioness in Rome because they all end up

713
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:45,350
in Rome what happens is that the I'll go

714
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:47,200
through this very quickly that when

715
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:49,970
Claudia senses generals are were to

716
00:27:57,490 --> 00:27:55,039
invade Britain in 43 ad the attacks the

717
00:27:59,500 --> 00:27:57,500
the Brits who are based in Berlin iam as

718
00:28:01,240 --> 00:27:59,510
I say which isn't all burns and a

719
00:28:03,070 --> 00:28:01,250
gorgeous his generals called oldest

720
00:28:07,299 --> 00:28:03,080
plough jeus invades Britain about that

721
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:07,309
time and he defeats chaotic who then he

722
00:28:12,940 --> 00:28:11,120
flees to Wales in and then in AD 50

723
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:12,950
the wife and children of karateka

724
00:28:17,409 --> 00:28:14,480
captured this is actually the site of

725
00:28:19,570 --> 00:28:17,419
the battle in church Stretton in in

726
00:28:21,549 --> 00:28:19,580
Shropshire and we have an english phil

727
00:28:23,139 --> 00:28:21,559
hill fort on top of that hill there just

728
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:23,149
called character addict although the

729
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:25,610
fortress of quranic' now we're in AD 50

730
00:28:30,669 --> 00:28:27,529
so what happens is quranic' is then

731
00:28:32,980 --> 00:28:30,679
taken in change to rome he said first of

732
00:28:35,499 --> 00:28:32,990
all he escapes the battle but he's then

733
00:28:39,460 --> 00:28:35,509
turned in by queen katya man doer who is

734
00:28:40,509 --> 00:28:39,470
the the Brigantes queen if you like she

735
00:28:43,869 --> 00:28:40,519
actually turned him over to the Romans

736
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:43,879
and he's taken to Rome and his son and

737
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:46,370
daughter are also taken there so we have

738
00:28:50,379 --> 00:28:48,320
them all now in Rome he's about to be

739
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:50,389
executed in the forum but then he's

740
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:52,490
allowed to speak to the Emperor Claudius

741
00:28:58,149 --> 00:28:54,320
in the Senate you know the normally they

742
00:28:59,440 --> 00:28:58,159
got a king of who rebels against the

743
00:29:02,019 --> 00:28:59,450
Rome but in this particular case because

744
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:02,029
we have a very wise Emperor Claudius is

745
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:04,970
Bala the only one in this period and he

746
00:29:10,029 --> 00:29:07,610
actually says ok I'll listen to what you

747
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:10,039
have to say so the guy makes a famous

748
00:29:14,889 --> 00:29:12,559
speech now that speech is recorded in

749
00:29:17,169 --> 00:29:14,899
Tacitus and of course we're now into

750
00:29:18,970 --> 00:29:17,179
Roman history and this is the speech of

751
00:29:21,749 --> 00:29:18,980
qur'anic as Tacitus actually record it

752
00:29:24,669 --> 00:29:21,759
in his in his works and this is what the

753
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:24,679
Tacitus says that carracticus now

754
00:29:29,919 --> 00:29:27,049
qur'anic called karateka sinned Rome

755
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:29,929
this is what he says to the Emperor if

756
00:29:33,970 --> 00:29:31,730
you romance use tool all it over the

757
00:29:36,129 --> 00:29:33,980
world does it follow that the world must

758
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:36,139
accept slavery if I had surrendered

759
00:29:39,009 --> 00:29:36,799
immediately

760
00:29:41,230 --> 00:29:39,019
neither my fall nor your triumph would

761
00:29:43,330 --> 00:29:41,240
have become famous my punishment would

762
00:29:45,639 --> 00:29:43,340
have been followed by oblivion whereas

763
00:29:47,710 --> 00:29:45,649
if you know you now saved my life how

764
00:29:49,389 --> 00:29:47,720
she I shall be an everlasting memorial

765
00:29:51,909 --> 00:29:49,399
to Roman clemency though he's very

766
00:29:55,299 --> 00:29:51,919
clever he's appealing to Roman justice

767
00:29:57,100 --> 00:29:55,309
and this benevolent Emperor and he gets

768
00:29:59,440 --> 00:29:57,110
off with it he doesn't get killed

769
00:30:02,080 --> 00:29:59,450
he still that he gets given a palace in

770
00:30:04,690 --> 00:30:02,090
Rome he has to live in exile but he ends

771
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:04,700
up now in Rome so Kurata Kassebaum

772
00:30:09,580 --> 00:30:06,289
they're giving a palace in exile on the

773
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:09,590
menial hill within the walls of Rome the

774
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:11,330
residence is actually called and

775
00:30:16,289 --> 00:30:13,370
recorded is called Pilate in Britannica

776
00:30:18,419 --> 00:30:16,299
which means the British Palace

777
00:30:20,399 --> 00:30:18,429
karateka Z's daughter GLaDOS is

778
00:30:22,469 --> 00:30:20,409
officially adopted by the emperor

779
00:30:25,109 --> 00:30:22,479
claudius and so she actually becomes

780
00:30:27,629 --> 00:30:25,119
Claudia he's net she's named after

781
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:27,639
Claudius and she's very famous including

782
00:30:31,379 --> 00:30:29,440
arrangement Roman literature she's

783
00:30:32,909 --> 00:30:31,389
called Claudia peregrina which means

784
00:30:36,269 --> 00:30:32,919
Claudia the foreigner Claudia the

785
00:30:38,219 --> 00:30:36,279
foreigner so they're used on that point

786
00:30:39,779 --> 00:30:38,229
there so these British exhales are are

787
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,789
the first Christians in Rome because

788
00:30:43,379 --> 00:30:41,440
remember they've been converted by

789
00:30:45,389 --> 00:30:43,389
Joseph so this whole British line

790
00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:45,399
leading up to this point our British

791
00:30:49,889 --> 00:30:47,769
Christians so the first Christians in

792
00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:49,899
Rome are actually from Britain this is

793
00:30:55,919 --> 00:30:52,329
before Paul arrives before Peter

794
00:30:59,789 --> 00:30:55,929
possibly arrives so carracticus his son

795
00:31:01,859 --> 00:30:59,799
Lyn whose name is Linus in in in Rome

796
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,869
becomes the first Bishop of Rome

797
00:31:05,999 --> 00:31:04,320
appointed by Paul so when Paul arrives

798
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:06,009
according to Irenaeus

799
00:31:13,349 --> 00:31:09,519
he appoints Linus as the first bishop

800
00:31:15,989 --> 00:31:13,359
not Peter Som Peter was not the first

801
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:15,999
Bishop of Rome in fact none of the

802
00:31:19,289 --> 00:31:17,919
apostles were ever bishops what they did

803
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:19,299
was they traveled around the ancient

804
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:23,679
world converting Christic people to

805
00:31:28,019 --> 00:31:26,049
Christianity and they appointed locals

806
00:31:30,180 --> 00:31:28,029
as the bishops and they moved on to the

807
00:31:32,159 --> 00:31:30,190
next city that's exactly what happened

808
00:31:33,569 --> 00:31:32,169
in Rome what happened was Paul arrived

809
00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:33,579
in Rome there were ordering these

810
00:31:39,180 --> 00:31:35,769
Britons in Rome living in Rome in this

811
00:31:41,699 --> 00:31:39,190
British palace the Sun cold lioness who

812
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:41,709
had the cup of Christ who owned the cup

813
00:31:45,869 --> 00:31:44,320
of Christ was the obvious candidate to

814
00:31:48,029 --> 00:31:45,879
make us the first Bishop of Rome so that

815
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:48,039
he could serve the mass in Rome using

816
00:31:52,889 --> 00:31:50,559
Christ's cup from the Last Supper that's

817
00:31:53,729 --> 00:31:52,899
what gave him the power to be the first

818
00:31:56,009 --> 00:31:53,739
Bishop of Rome

819
00:31:57,599 --> 00:31:56,019
Peter only comes along later and he's

820
00:32:00,419 --> 00:31:57,609
not the Bishop of Rome which is

821
00:32:03,419 --> 00:32:00,429
interesting because what - Azazel has

822
00:32:04,379 --> 00:32:03,429
always been seen as the second exactly

823
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:04,389
but he wasn't

824
00:32:07,949 --> 00:32:06,129
that's only in Catholic tradition in

825
00:32:11,009 --> 00:32:07,959
Vatican tradition because they obviously

826
00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:11,019
wanting to follow the idea that on this

827
00:32:14,129 --> 00:32:12,700
rock I will build my church and the

828
00:32:16,259 --> 00:32:14,139
words that Peter will be the first

829
00:32:19,349 --> 00:32:16,269
Bishop of Rome the reality is what that

830
00:32:22,139 --> 00:32:19,359
statement means by Christ is that Sint

831
00:32:25,049 --> 00:32:22,149
Peters the basilica will be built on the

832
00:32:27,299 --> 00:32:25,059
bones of Peter on this rock I will build

833
00:32:29,129 --> 00:32:27,309
my church is a literal statement it

834
00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:29,139
doesn't mean he was the first Bishop of

835
00:32:32,190 --> 00:32:30,110
Rome

836
00:32:35,529 --> 00:32:32,200
hmm

837
00:32:36,940 --> 00:32:35,539
so the the location of that palace I'll

838
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:36,950
just show you where that is very quickly

839
00:32:41,019 --> 00:32:38,960
you have our on the left hand side they

840
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:41,029
have got akin Hill and over there on the

841
00:32:45,730 --> 00:32:43,250
mini women L Hill you have Pilate and

842
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:45,740
Britannica and we actually still there

843
00:32:48,820 --> 00:32:46,250
today

844
00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:48,830
it's the oldest Basilica in Rome and

845
00:32:53,860 --> 00:32:51,500
it's today called Santa prudency Ana and

846
00:32:55,539 --> 00:32:53,870
it is actually it formed and built on

847
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:55,549
top of an ancient Roman villa and it has

848
00:32:59,499 --> 00:32:57,440
the characteristics of a Roman villa and

849
00:33:01,330 --> 00:32:59,509
so this was the place where the first

850
00:33:03,639 --> 00:33:01,340
Christians lived in Rome each Pilate and

851
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:03,649
Britannic am the British Palace and this

852
00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:06,529
is where the family of Claudia who

853
00:33:11,619 --> 00:33:08,990
married a senator call Putin's or a

854
00:33:13,899 --> 00:33:11,629
Roman centurion called Putin's his grant

855
00:33:15,789 --> 00:33:13,909
his father was a senator and and it's

856
00:33:17,919 --> 00:33:15,799
from there that we get to Timothy of

857
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:17,929
course to Timothy where Paul having

858
00:33:22,749 --> 00:33:20,480
arrived in Rome writes to Timothy and

859
00:33:23,860 --> 00:33:22,759
says greetings from these people who

860
00:33:25,810 --> 00:33:23,870
were older they're the Christians are

861
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:25,820
already there including cloudy and

862
00:33:29,860 --> 00:33:28,399
Putin's and including lioness and you

863
00:33:32,830 --> 00:33:29,870
beliefs who becomes the first bishop

864
00:33:35,950 --> 00:33:32,840
Britain so all these British characters

865
00:33:37,930 --> 00:33:35,960
are living in Rome in exile and they are

866
00:33:39,460 --> 00:33:37,940
the place that that Paul comes to when

867
00:33:41,289 --> 00:33:39,470
it comes to visit Rome and then he

868
00:33:43,330 --> 00:33:41,299
writes back to Timothy giving greetings

869
00:33:48,580 --> 00:33:43,340
from these British people these British

870
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:48,590
Christians that's so fascinating I did

871
00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:50,720
to know that there was you know a

872
00:33:57,310 --> 00:33:55,279
parallel connection it well it's a it's

873
00:33:59,740 --> 00:33:57,320
a you know what some people say ok it's

874
00:34:01,930 --> 00:33:59,750
a British legend and that's fair enough

875
00:34:04,450 --> 00:34:01,940
to argue that but it's supported by so

876
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:04,460
much evidence are we back on screen by

877
00:34:09,399 --> 00:34:07,370
the way we're on screen yes okay but for

878
00:34:12,930 --> 00:34:09,409
instance the Apostolic constitutions

879
00:34:15,940 --> 00:34:12,940
which are housed in the Vatican archive

880
00:34:18,730 --> 00:34:15,950
supposedly written by Peter actually say

881
00:34:22,540 --> 00:34:18,740
that line that the first Bishop of Rome

882
00:34:24,909 --> 00:34:22,550
was the son of a British king so there

883
00:34:27,250 --> 00:34:24,919
you have the Vatican actually saying

884
00:34:29,169 --> 00:34:27,260
what really happened you know that you

885
00:34:34,419 --> 00:34:29,179
have a British king whose son becomes

886
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:34,429
the first bishop of rome and you know if

887
00:34:38,889 --> 00:34:36,560
this is the case and at least it lends a

888
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:38,899
lot more credence to that I know that

889
00:34:44,399 --> 00:34:42,079
Tacitus had extensive records he you

890
00:34:48,059 --> 00:34:44,409
know the most famous historian of Rome

891
00:34:49,319 --> 00:34:48,069
yeah absolutely and and so they you know

892
00:34:52,049 --> 00:34:49,329
we can be absolutely certain this

893
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:52,059
qur'anic character the karateka s-- must

894
00:34:56,399 --> 00:34:54,250
have come to Rome as a defeated British

895
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:56,409
King and he brought his family with him

896
00:35:00,809 --> 00:34:58,450
and that's in Tacitus so we could be

897
00:35:02,819 --> 00:35:00,819
sure of that and so the question is can

898
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,829
we link that to the Joseph Arimathea

899
00:35:06,450 --> 00:35:04,720
story of the Holy Grail coming to

900
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:06,460
Britain and how he ended up in Rome

901
00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:09,010
because the story then moves from Rome

902
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:11,470
to Spain eventually but then we we jump

903
00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:13,440
to centuries because we have so many

904
00:35:17,309 --> 00:35:15,520
bishops of Rome before we get to the

905
00:35:19,140 --> 00:35:17,319
point where it has to leave Rome and

906
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:19,150
that is a very different story then

907
00:35:22,890 --> 00:35:20,770
because we're now into the persecutions

908
00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:22,900
the persecutions against the Christians

909
00:35:29,579 --> 00:35:25,569
in the reign of valerian so we're in the

910
00:35:32,460 --> 00:35:29,589
third century AD and in this particular

911
00:35:33,809 --> 00:35:32,470
period then the the priesthood and the

912
00:35:34,829 --> 00:35:33,819
Catholic priesthood or the Christian

913
00:35:36,450 --> 00:35:34,839
priests or the early Christian

914
00:35:39,059 --> 00:35:36,460
priesthood it's being threatened by the

915
00:35:41,039 --> 00:35:39,069
Roman emperors and they have big base

916
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:41,049
virtually get this cup of Christ out of

917
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:42,880
Rome because it's going to be

918
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:45,760
confiscated by their the Emperor and so

919
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:48,130
we come to the story of a of an

920
00:35:53,730 --> 00:35:50,890
individual course called st. Lawrence or

921
00:35:55,769 --> 00:35:53,740
San Lorenzo in Spanish and he's the guy

922
00:35:58,829 --> 00:35:55,779
that's responsible for saving the Grail

923
00:36:00,930 --> 00:35:58,839
from destruction like the cup of Christ

924
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:00,940
which has been used by all the bishops

925
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:03,609
of Rome since Linus's day so all the way

926
00:36:08,039 --> 00:36:05,170
through those two hundred years or so

927
00:36:09,930 --> 00:36:08,049
we've had that Cup in in Rome being used

928
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:09,940
to in the mass in the early Christian

929
00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:11,890
mass until the point where we get to

930
00:36:16,140 --> 00:36:13,750
valerian and then there's a there's a

931
00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:16,150
persecution one of the persecutions of

932
00:36:20,819 --> 00:36:18,430
the Christians and it's the time when we

933
00:36:23,250 --> 00:36:20,829
have to get this car out of the country

934
00:36:26,250 --> 00:36:23,260
and get it to safety in in Christian

935
00:36:28,769 --> 00:36:26,260
Spain in northern Christian Spain now

936
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:28,779
help whoops

937
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:30,910
she just jumped right from a microphone

938
00:36:33,870 --> 00:36:31,930
oh I saw it

939
00:36:36,049 --> 00:36:33,880
yeah now how about the the different

940
00:36:38,670 --> 00:36:36,059
counts or at least the different

941
00:36:41,490 --> 00:36:38,680
segments of Christianity at that time I

942
00:36:42,990 --> 00:36:41,500
know that there are considerable amounts

943
00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:43,000
of literature and text that may not

944
00:36:49,980 --> 00:36:45,190
necessarily have been considered can and

945
00:36:53,069 --> 00:36:49,990
how how have let's say the you know the

946
00:36:55,289 --> 00:36:53,079
more less Orthodox or let's say that the

947
00:36:57,870 --> 00:36:55,299
Greek side of Christianity have looked

948
00:36:59,820 --> 00:36:57,880
at the the Grail mythos

949
00:37:02,030 --> 00:36:59,830
I am not entirely sure about that the

950
00:37:05,730 --> 00:37:02,040
Orthodox or Greek Eastern Christianity

951
00:37:07,710 --> 00:37:05,740
the Grail story of course is is focused

952
00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:07,720
on Western Christianity on Western

953
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:09,670
Europe but that's where the tradition is

954
00:37:13,890 --> 00:37:12,010
it's not an Eastern one although of

955
00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:13,900
course in the Arthurian tradition we

956
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:15,910
have also some mentions of people

957
00:37:21,090 --> 00:37:18,010
Crusaders and people who were in the

958
00:37:22,770 --> 00:37:21,100
east and we get Arabic names coming

959
00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:22,780
along so there is don't forget a

960
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:25,630
connection that we find a meeting point

961
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:28,330
between Christianity and Islam and where

962
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:30,910
is that that's in Spain that's where we

963
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:33,010
get that the Moorish conquest of Spain

964
00:37:38,490 --> 00:37:35,650
and we get Christians and Muslims and

965
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:38,500
Jews all living in the Iberian Peninsula

966
00:37:43,290 --> 00:37:41,440
at the same time before we get to Isabel

967
00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:43,300
and Ferdinand T of course kick out the

968
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:46,030
Moors so that's where we get into this

969
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:48,730
strange traditional mix that we get in

970
00:37:52,530 --> 00:37:51,610
Wolfram von Eschenbach we especially we

971
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:52,540
get that in the tradition of the

972
00:37:58,440 --> 00:37:55,930
Sangraal the holy grail where we get

973
00:37:59,640 --> 00:37:58,450
these strange Arabic names mentioned we

974
00:38:01,770 --> 00:37:59,650
get the mention of the Philosopher's

975
00:38:03,630 --> 00:38:01,780
Stone again which of course is something

976
00:38:05,340 --> 00:38:03,640
to do with the Arab world and it's all

977
00:38:07,590 --> 00:38:05,350
tied into the Crusader paired women

978
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:07,600
again Christians going into the to the

979
00:38:11,610 --> 00:38:09,850
fart of the Middle East and mixing with

980
00:38:13,770 --> 00:38:11,620
the cultures learning a lot about the

981
00:38:16,530 --> 00:38:13,780
Islamic traditions and Arabic traditions

982
00:38:19,770 --> 00:38:16,540
and they bring them in to their thinking

983
00:38:22,890 --> 00:38:19,780
their ideal ideologies as well as the

984
00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:22,900
influence from Islam in Moorish Spain so

985
00:38:27,450 --> 00:38:25,060
we have this remember that in Mori Spain

986
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:27,460
that the Christians and their and and

987
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:28,930
Islam are fighting a lot but they're

988
00:38:32,850 --> 00:38:31,210
also integrating a lot as well in the

989
00:38:35,340 --> 00:38:32,860
story of El Cid Francaise he has many

990
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:35,350
friends within the Muslim world who were

991
00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:37,210
on his side fighting against other Moors

992
00:38:42,540 --> 00:38:40,030
so we get this mixture this admixture of

993
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:42,550
Arabic tradition and Christian tradition

994
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:45,280
but the focus of the Holy Grail legend

995
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:46,930
of course comes from the Arthurian

996
00:38:51,060 --> 00:38:49,210
traditions of Crotty under toir who's

997
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:51,070
the third the first guy in really turn

998
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:53,530
to write the stories about the the Holy

999
00:38:59,970 --> 00:38:56,800
Grail legend and he accosted a Frenchman

1000
00:39:01,920 --> 00:38:59,980
so help the german wolfram and we have

1001
00:39:04,110 --> 00:39:01,930
Kretsch ian the two of them were writing

1002
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:04,120
the principal romances that we know

1003
00:39:08,190 --> 00:39:06,490
about from the christian world about the

1004
00:39:11,180 --> 00:39:08,200
holy grail story and then that that it

1005
00:39:15,069 --> 00:39:11,190
evolves into the Arthurian tradition of

1006
00:39:17,780 --> 00:39:15,079
to British tradition but there are also

1007
00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:17,790
several different candidates for the

1008
00:39:21,980 --> 00:39:19,950
Holy Grail which I know that there is

1009
00:39:24,170 --> 00:39:21,990
though the Valencia chalice which we

1010
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:24,180
discussed there is the the you know a

1011
00:39:28,819 --> 00:39:26,490
chalice I know that there is also the

1012
00:39:30,290 --> 00:39:28,829
adonia or Asha which I'm probably

1013
00:39:33,650 --> 00:39:30,300
butchering that pronunciation

1014
00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:33,660
um how you know how are these different

1015
00:39:39,370 --> 00:39:35,790
candidates being looked at in comparison

1016
00:39:42,530 --> 00:39:39,380
to well they all have their advocates

1017
00:39:44,270 --> 00:39:42,540
obviously it depends on which tradition

1018
00:39:46,970 --> 00:39:44,280
you want to go if you want to go for the

1019
00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:46,980
Vatican tradition the Catholic tradition

1020
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:49,710
you have to realize that the the last

1021
00:39:56,750 --> 00:39:52,800
two Pope's before the current one both

1022
00:39:58,880 --> 00:39:56,760
of those when they were became Pope the

1023
00:40:01,910 --> 00:39:58,890
first place they went to on their world

1024
00:40:03,650 --> 00:40:01,920
travels guess where Valencia why did

1025
00:40:05,690 --> 00:40:03,660
they go to Valencia because that's where

1026
00:40:07,819 --> 00:40:05,700
the santo caliz is located them both of

1027
00:40:09,410 --> 00:40:07,829
them served the mass with this cup what

1028
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:09,420
we're talking about today they're the

1029
00:40:14,569 --> 00:40:11,970
red agate cup mounted on the byzantine

1030
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:14,579
gold so the both of those popes had very

1031
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:16,890
strong beliefs that this was the cup of

1032
00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:17,280
Christ

1033
00:40:21,319 --> 00:40:19,470
now you can dismiss that if you like but

1034
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:21,329
that's the original Catholic tradition

1035
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:23,250
the Vatican tradition the other ones

1036
00:40:27,020 --> 00:40:25,410
have not got the same tradition and also

1037
00:40:29,660 --> 00:40:27,030
there's the archaeological evidence that

1038
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:29,670
the the red agate cup was made in the

1039
00:40:35,569 --> 00:40:32,970
1st century AD in that area so it fits

1040
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:35,579
the timeline as well it's not a later

1041
00:40:39,650 --> 00:40:37,920
Edition that this come into the story it

1042
00:40:41,390 --> 00:40:39,660
has a pedigree going back to our

1043
00:40:44,510 --> 00:40:41,400
archaeological period when that type of

1044
00:40:46,339 --> 00:40:44,520
cook was being made in in that area so

1045
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:46,349
it's got its strengths it's got a lot of

1046
00:40:51,230 --> 00:40:48,690
strength to it and when you then pick up

1047
00:40:53,420 --> 00:40:51,240
the story of it how it got to Spain from

1048
00:40:55,339 --> 00:40:53,430
Rome we're now in documented history we

1049
00:40:59,660 --> 00:40:55,349
actually have proper documented history

1050
00:41:01,880 --> 00:40:59,670
about this Cup and how it it left Rome

1051
00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:01,890
under the valerian persecutions and

1052
00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:05,160
ended up in her Wescoe in in Aragon in

1053
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:07,980
northern Spain ancient Latin Oscar and

1054
00:41:11,210 --> 00:41:09,510
it's from there that we have any

1055
00:41:12,980 --> 00:41:11,220
documented history of what happened to

1056
00:41:16,099 --> 00:41:12,990
that girl and how I ended up in Valencia

1057
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:16,109
in you know I know that we have a lot of

1058
00:41:21,650 --> 00:41:19,770
time and I would get very very very

1059
00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:21,660
angry messages of it if I didn't go into

1060
00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:23,250
this with you which would be Mary

1061
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:25,310
Magdalene obviously

1062
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:27,850
but you know that the Dan Brown story is

1063
00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:31,970
a very very good written book but it may

1064
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:33,710
not necessarily be close to the actual

1065
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:36,530
truth so I would like to get your your

1066
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:39,920
input on this well I obviously read the

1067
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:43,040
original Holy Blood Holy Grail book well

1068
00:41:47,380 --> 00:41:45,440
before Dan Brown and it was very

1069
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:47,390
intriguing I think I read it when I was

1070
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:49,760
fairly young and I looked into it in

1071
00:41:54,450 --> 00:41:51,650
great deal a great you know interest

1072
00:41:57,010 --> 00:41:54,460
with a lot of detail and of course the

1073
00:42:00,430 --> 00:41:57,020
originals part of the story the idea

1074
00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:00,440
that Mary Magdalene was at least the

1075
00:42:06,430 --> 00:42:02,240
girlfriend of Christ if not the wife of

1076
00:42:08,500 --> 00:42:06,440
Christ it's very powerful I think that

1077
00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:08,510
she's much under a underrated

1078
00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:10,160
underestimated in terms of the biblical

1079
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:13,250
story and I think she was a very very

1080
00:42:18,310 --> 00:42:15,170
important apostle a very important

1081
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:18,320
person in Jesus's life she probably came

1082
00:42:21,700 --> 00:42:20,240
from a wealthy family so she might have

1083
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:21,710
been one of the main sponsors of

1084
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:23,290
Christianity in terms of finance

1085
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:25,970
providing funds for the Apostles and

1086
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:28,610
Jesus when he was traveling around the

1087
00:42:34,420 --> 00:42:31,730
Holy Land so she's very influential now

1088
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:34,430
there is a very strong tradition and I

1089
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:36,560
like to just share again a few bits of

1090
00:42:41,350 --> 00:42:38,960
information about this that shows that

1091
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:41,360
actually she although she's not the

1092
00:42:46,270 --> 00:42:44,090
Grail she was responsible for bringing

1093
00:42:47,620 --> 00:42:46,280
the Grail with Joseph to the southern

1094
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:47,630
France which is why she's the patron

1095
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,570
saint of France or Provence and I'll

1096
00:42:54,580 --> 00:42:52,640
just I'll just pop that a few pictures

1097
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:54,590
up for you to show you that and how

1098
00:43:00,610 --> 00:42:58,130
strong that tradition is in in France

1099
00:43:02,770 --> 00:43:00,620
itself so

1100
00:43:04,930 --> 00:43:02,780
first of all can you see you there are

1101
00:43:07,870 --> 00:43:04,940
we back on share screen again we are

1102
00:43:11,310 --> 00:43:07,880
back on okay what you're looking at

1103
00:43:15,460 --> 00:43:11,320
there is the ceiling of a really famous

1104
00:43:18,010 --> 00:43:15,470
Church in Paris called sacre coeur which

1105
00:43:21,340 --> 00:43:18,020
is the the second most important Church

1106
00:43:23,650 --> 00:43:21,350
after offered after notre dam and on the

1107
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:23,660
ceiling you will see if you squint it up

1108
00:43:27,730 --> 00:43:25,010
and I'm going to actually turn it around

1109
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:27,740
and show you you can see a group of

1110
00:43:33,070 --> 00:43:31,730
people arriving in France on a boat the

1111
00:43:35,140 --> 00:43:33,080
first three in particular the most

1112
00:43:36,730 --> 00:43:35,150
important ones you can see the prow of

1113
00:43:39,130 --> 00:43:36,740
the boat and you can also see the sail

1114
00:43:42,490 --> 00:43:39,140
behind the first three now this is the

1115
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:42,500
famous French tradition of the arrival

1116
00:43:47,590 --> 00:43:44,210
of some of the apostles and their

1117
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:47,600
entourage samory de la Mer in southern

1118
00:43:52,210 --> 00:43:50,720
France and the first three their names

1119
00:43:55,390 --> 00:43:52,220
are actually in their halos the first

1120
00:43:56,650 --> 00:43:55,400
one is Lazarus as you can see the second

1121
00:43:58,540 --> 00:43:56,660
one is Magdalena

1122
00:44:00,520 --> 00:43:58,550
which is Mary Magdalene and the third

1123
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:00,530
one is Martha who is the sister of

1124
00:44:04,450 --> 00:44:02,930
Lazarus so they're all from Bethany

1125
00:44:05,410 --> 00:44:04,460
while the two of them are ábeforeá in

1126
00:44:07,630 --> 00:44:05,420
the middle of the mink we have Mary

1127
00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:07,640
Magdalene this is the story that we know

1128
00:44:12,310 --> 00:44:09,740
from the French tradition of them

1129
00:44:13,810 --> 00:44:12,320
arriving in in France the female members

1130
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:13,820
of Jesus family and some of his male

1131
00:44:18,190 --> 00:44:15,920
followers the party from Caesarea by

1132
00:44:19,660 --> 00:44:18,200
boat in the spring of 8030 six eight

1133
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:19,670
years after the crucifixion and

1134
00:44:23,890 --> 00:44:20,810
following the stoning to death of

1135
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:23,900
Stephen who's the first martyr they

1136
00:44:28,780 --> 00:44:25,730
arrived summary de la Mer near

1137
00:44:30,490 --> 00:44:28,790
Marseilles according to Archbishop Robin

1138
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:30,500
a small Ross who is a ninth century

1139
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:34,250
historian in the boat were Mary Martha

1140
00:44:38,740 --> 00:44:37,010
and Lazarus of Bethany three that are

1141
00:44:41,410 --> 00:44:38,750
mentioned in the story of the raising of

1142
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:41,420
Lazarus along with Mary Magdalene and a

1143
00:44:46,420 --> 00:44:43,280
guy called max Amin who becomes Saint

1144
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:46,430
maximun later and Joseph Athiya and lots

1145
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:48,110
of other Christians as well now they're

1146
00:44:52,540 --> 00:44:50,090
probably traveling in one of Josas boats

1147
00:44:53,980 --> 00:44:52,550
because he was a tin merchant and the

1148
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:53,990
tradition is that he came to Cornwall

1149
00:45:00,580 --> 00:44:56,480
and got his tin from the area so he had

1150
00:45:02,350 --> 00:45:00,590
a fleet of ships so uh then Joseph moved

1151
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:02,360
on to Britain which is the story we have

1152
00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:03,770
already mentioned about the Glastonbury

1153
00:45:07,150 --> 00:45:06,110
tradition but of course Mary Magdalene

1154
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:07,160
remained in Provence

1155
00:45:12,620 --> 00:45:09,290
preaching from the Hermitage of San Bao

1156
00:45:16,310 --> 00:45:12,630
until she died in AD 63

1157
00:45:18,350 --> 00:45:16,320
so if we look at where that is there is

1158
00:45:20,930 --> 00:45:18,360
where Sam Marie de la Mer is located

1159
00:45:23,210 --> 00:45:20,940
where they came ashore there is

1160
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,220
Marseille very close by and we're in

1161
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:25,440
Provence now so the grotto of sant bomb

1162
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:28,650
is located in southern Provence and I

1163
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:30,000
actually went there and had a look at

1164
00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:32,490
the place and the place where her bones

1165
00:45:37,130 --> 00:45:34,710
are traditionally buried is in Scent

1166
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:37,140
maximum the southbound this is the the

1167
00:45:42,740 --> 00:45:39,330
Church of the bishops on maximum who set

1168
00:45:44,570 --> 00:45:42,750
up the church there and the actual cave

1169
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:44,580
where she lived for though she is past

1170
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:46,290
that time is built up in this cliff here

1171
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:50,130
and it's got a monastery in front of it

1172
00:45:54,670 --> 00:45:51,810
today but if you get we dig in a little

1173
00:45:57,620 --> 00:45:54,680
bit closer there's the old monastery and

1174
00:45:59,360 --> 00:45:57,630
inside is this cave which is where she

1175
00:46:02,390 --> 00:45:59,370
is said to have lived out the rest of

1176
00:46:04,850 --> 00:46:02,400
her life preaching and converting and

1177
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:04,860
there in there is a statue of Mary

1178
00:46:11,060 --> 00:46:08,640
Magdalene sure she died in AD 63 and

1179
00:46:13,070 --> 00:46:11,070
they she was her two bones were buried

1180
00:46:16,190 --> 00:46:13,080
then in this this church core Sun

1181
00:46:18,650 --> 00:46:16,200
maximum and if you go down into the the

1182
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:18,660
vaults beneath the the Crypt beneath the

1183
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:21,330
church you will see a grill and there's

1184
00:46:27,380 --> 00:46:25,170
a skull behind the grille and sometimes

1185
00:46:29,810 --> 00:46:27,390
it's taken out and it's the obviously

1186
00:46:32,420 --> 00:46:29,820
encased in this gold but at the famous

1187
00:46:34,580 --> 00:46:32,430
long locks of Mary Magdalene and it's

1188
00:46:36,410 --> 00:46:34,590
believed to be the skull of Mary

1189
00:46:38,570 --> 00:46:36,420
Magdalene now that's the French

1190
00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:38,580
tradition and it's obviously a very

1191
00:46:44,090 --> 00:46:41,730
strong tradition but it doesn't deal

1192
00:46:47,390 --> 00:46:44,100
with this idea of continuing on to sort

1193
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:47,400
of Dan Brown idea which i think is you

1194
00:46:53,210 --> 00:46:49,650
know is not working I mean yes it's

1195
00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:53,220
possible entirely possible that Mary

1196
00:46:59,180 --> 00:46:56,250
Magdalene had a daughter or a child to

1197
00:47:00,890 --> 00:46:59,190
Jesus but the idea of linking that to

1198
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:00,900
the Grail legend is something quite

1199
00:47:05,630 --> 00:47:02,970
different the Grail is the cup it's not

1200
00:47:08,450 --> 00:47:05,640
the person so that hold down Brown thing

1201
00:47:10,490 --> 00:47:08,460
changes when she transmogrifies into the

1202
00:47:12,590 --> 00:47:10,500
Grail being Mary Magdalene herself and

1203
00:47:16,610 --> 00:47:12,600
of course it yes we have this idea of

1204
00:47:20,330 --> 00:47:16,620
Sangre al can be sang a ray au which is

1205
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:20,340
the the royal blood as opposed to the

1206
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:23,730
the cup or the dish and so we have this

1207
00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:26,640
link but the royal blood

1208
00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:28,710
it's also linked to the idea of Joseph

1209
00:47:32,299 --> 00:47:29,940
gathering the blood of Christ at the

1210
00:47:33,739 --> 00:47:32,309
crucifixion in the cup so it has a

1211
00:47:36,589 --> 00:47:33,749
connection that way as well

1212
00:47:41,359 --> 00:47:36,599
so although I'm perfectly okay with the

1213
00:47:43,849 --> 00:47:41,369
idea that that Mary was the mother of

1214
00:47:46,190 --> 00:47:43,859
Jesus's child and after all Jesus was a

1215
00:47:48,289 --> 00:47:46,200
rabbi and rabbis should be married in

1216
00:47:50,539 --> 00:47:48,299
order to be men of the world in order to

1217
00:47:52,940 --> 00:47:50,549
do their teachings I have no problem

1218
00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:52,950
with the idea that Jesus was a husband

1219
00:47:58,009 --> 00:47:55,710
that Jesus had a child and that child

1220
00:48:00,559 --> 00:47:58,019
maybe came to Provence with Mary

1221
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:00,569
Magdalene but beyond that we can't go as

1222
00:48:04,940 --> 00:48:02,640
far as I'm concerned what happens to the

1223
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:04,950
the Priory of Zion stuff and all that

1224
00:48:09,499 --> 00:48:06,930
isn't much much later and it's obviously

1225
00:48:12,140 --> 00:48:09,509
clearly a forgery it's not it's not a

1226
00:48:14,930 --> 00:48:12,150
real historical thing but the part about

1227
00:48:18,289 --> 00:48:14,940
Mary coming to France I think is as a

1228
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:18,299
very strong basis of tradition behind it

1229
00:48:22,069 --> 00:48:19,920
and what would you think is the

1230
00:48:24,890 --> 00:48:22,079
significance is is it more important for

1231
00:48:27,559 --> 00:48:24,900
people of faith to have this connection

1232
00:48:29,089 --> 00:48:27,569
to say okay well this this actually

1233
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:29,099
happened or is it more important

1234
00:48:33,950 --> 00:48:31,140
historically to say that this actually

1235
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:33,960
happened I don't mind it could be either

1236
00:48:40,670 --> 00:48:37,650
way I I don't see any reason why a

1237
00:48:44,859 --> 00:48:40,680
priest a man of God cannot be a husband

1238
00:48:47,989 --> 00:48:44,869
in fact I think it's beneficial for

1239
00:48:50,180 --> 00:48:47,999
somebody who actually is the the

1240
00:48:51,620 --> 00:48:50,190
intermediary between God and you if you

1241
00:48:53,269 --> 00:48:51,630
want if you don't want to talk directly

1242
00:48:54,529 --> 00:48:53,279
to God if you want to go to the medieval

1243
00:48:56,690 --> 00:48:54,539
tradition of going through the priest

1244
00:48:58,579 --> 00:48:56,700
that the priests should not be a man of

1245
00:49:00,499 --> 00:48:58,589
the world and that is the case with

1246
00:49:02,359 --> 00:49:00,509
rabbis well I have no trouble with that

1247
00:49:04,789 --> 00:49:02,369
well I think it was more referring to

1248
00:49:09,079 --> 00:49:04,799
the legend as a whole as far as linking

1249
00:49:11,450 --> 00:49:09,089
the historical points to the particular

1250
00:49:13,099 --> 00:49:11,460
items that's that we you know that we're

1251
00:49:14,809 --> 00:49:13,109
discussing as far as linking that

1252
00:49:17,779 --> 00:49:14,819
history from the time of the crucifixion

1253
00:49:20,180 --> 00:49:17,789
to you know the you know Joseph's

1254
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:20,190
arrival in Britain or Mary's arrival in

1255
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:22,559
in France you know do you think that

1256
00:49:27,289 --> 00:49:25,170
helps people in terms of faith or is it

1257
00:49:28,489 --> 00:49:27,299
you know that that is also important or

1258
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:28,499
do you think that it's important also to

1259
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:30,420
link via the historical fact to to know

1260
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:32,170
that it's actually true

1261
00:49:36,990 --> 00:49:34,240
well apart from the fact we have

1262
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:37,000
mentioned in Tacitus even of this person

1263
00:49:42,270 --> 00:49:40,330
called Jesus and some people say okay

1264
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:42,280
that's been added in by the Christian

1265
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:44,170
Church into the original document and

1266
00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:45,490
all the rest of it what you have to

1267
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:47,680
realize is that the task of these

1268
00:49:53,820 --> 00:49:51,370
apostles was to go out and preach the

1269
00:49:56,190 --> 00:49:53,830
word the doctrine the you know the words

1270
00:49:57,630 --> 00:49:56,200
of Christ and that is what we find in

1271
00:49:59,490 --> 00:49:57,640
all the traditions they go to India they

1272
00:50:02,340 --> 00:49:59,500
go to Egypt they go to Spain they go to

1273
00:50:04,620 --> 00:50:02,350
France they go to Britain this is what

1274
00:50:06,540 --> 00:50:04,630
we'd expect to happen how else would

1275
00:50:09,900 --> 00:50:06,550
Christianity evolve into the great

1276
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:09,910
church it is without that movement it

1277
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:11,050
wouldn't have happened if they'd all

1278
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:14,770
stayed in Jerusalem you know in Jesus's

1279
00:50:19,590 --> 00:50:17,170
brother he did nothing he was stuck in

1280
00:50:21,210 --> 00:50:19,600
Jerusalem and so he didn't he didn't go

1281
00:50:22,740 --> 00:50:21,220
out and do any preaching it was down to

1282
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:22,750
Paul and the rest of them to go into all

1283
00:50:26,910 --> 00:50:25,450
the all the preaching and so it gives

1284
00:50:28,650 --> 00:50:26,920
you the strength to know that they

1285
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:28,660
believe so strongly they were prepared

1286
00:50:33,330 --> 00:50:30,850
to be martyred tells you something about

1287
00:50:35,250 --> 00:50:33,340
the reality of the history of that era

1288
00:50:38,220 --> 00:50:35,260
and that Christ must have been more than

1289
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:38,230
just a historical footnote he must have

1290
00:50:42,270 --> 00:50:39,810
been much more than that

1291
00:50:43,980 --> 00:50:42,280
getting into the theology of you know

1292
00:50:46,620 --> 00:50:43,990
Christ himself that's a different issue

1293
00:50:48,270 --> 00:50:46,630
but these people believed that's the

1294
00:50:50,580 --> 00:50:48,280
point about it and they went out there

1295
00:50:52,380 --> 00:50:50,590
and they projected that belief on the

1296
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:52,390
other people who accepted the stories

1297
00:50:57,690 --> 00:50:55,210
and they died for it okay so it's a very

1298
00:50:59,850 --> 00:50:57,700
very powerful thing that's going on

1299
00:51:02,580 --> 00:50:59,860
there and for it all to be based on

1300
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:02,590
nothing is a rather strange thing I

1301
00:51:05,580 --> 00:51:04,210
think I think you have to accept the

1302
00:51:08,490 --> 00:51:05,590
fact that there's something very special

1303
00:51:10,410 --> 00:51:08,500
about that man who started this whole

1304
00:51:12,570 --> 00:51:10,420
thing off and they had so many followers

1305
00:51:13,020 --> 00:51:12,580
who went out there and risked their

1306
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:13,030
lives

1307
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:15,090
literally by going out and preaching to

1308
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:17,530
non-believers and of course the powers

1309
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:19,210
that be would then persecute them and

1310
00:51:22,980 --> 00:51:20,770
kill them and that's exactly the story

1311
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:22,990
and it's funny until we get to constant

1312
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:24,480
time where things start to change

1313
00:51:29,070 --> 00:51:26,110
well it you know at that point

1314
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:29,080
Constantine you had just essentially it

1315
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:32,160
started rican recombining the empire

1316
00:51:36,210 --> 00:51:34,690
between east and west and obviously that

1317
00:51:38,670 --> 00:51:36,220
was a very tumultuous time and I know

1318
00:51:41,460 --> 00:51:38,680
that a large majority of the Roman

1319
00:51:44,130 --> 00:51:41,470
Empire Roman army was were made of

1320
00:51:45,790 --> 00:51:44,140
Christians so you can't real room

1321
00:51:48,460 --> 00:51:45,800
without having

1322
00:51:50,470 --> 00:51:48,470
support of the army well there's no

1323
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:50,480
doubt in my mind that if Paul hadn't

1324
00:51:54,190 --> 00:51:52,250
gone to Rome and maybe if those British

1325
00:51:56,770 --> 00:51:54,200
Christians hadn't gone to Rome they

1326
00:51:59,770 --> 00:51:56,780
wouldn't be Christianity today you know

1327
00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:59,780
that they had to go to the hub the

1328
00:52:03,609 --> 00:52:01,520
equivalent of going to New York today or

1329
00:52:06,130 --> 00:52:03,619
Washington today if they hadn't done

1330
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:06,140
that if they hadn't gone to the great

1331
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:08,480
Babylon and preached from Babylon itself

1332
00:52:12,130 --> 00:52:10,490
there would have been no Christianity

1333
00:52:14,020 --> 00:52:12,140
today it was through the Roman Empire

1334
00:52:17,950 --> 00:52:14,030
that we got Christianity as a worldwide

1335
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:17,960
religion and the I know there's one

1336
00:52:21,190 --> 00:52:19,280
subject that we didn't necessarily touch

1337
00:52:24,370 --> 00:52:21,200
on very much which was the burial site

1338
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:24,380
of Peter obviously uh you know that is

1339
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:27,680
the burial site of the holy Basilica in

1340
00:52:33,970 --> 00:52:31,520
Rome yeah what are your thoughts on on

1341
00:52:35,830 --> 00:52:33,980
that is the actual burial site well I

1342
00:52:38,350 --> 00:52:35,840
think it's archaeologically extremely

1343
00:52:41,380 --> 00:52:38,360
strong if I can see if I can find

1344
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:41,390
something to show you on that now where

1345
00:52:46,510 --> 00:52:42,800
would that be that's probably going to

1346
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:46,520
be in yes it's in this one here let me

1347
00:52:52,380 --> 00:52:49,280
just fire it up a second see I think the

1348
00:52:54,940 --> 00:52:52,390
visuals help to to explain these things

1349
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:54,950
better than I could do just by verbally

1350
00:53:00,609 --> 00:52:57,170
explaining it so can you see my screen I

1351
00:53:02,260 --> 00:53:00,619
can I can yes okay so let's just quickly

1352
00:53:03,630 --> 00:53:02,270
whip through what's going on here I

1353
00:53:06,010 --> 00:53:03,640
thought I'll just take it straight to

1354
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:06,020
two pieces of Peters we don't need to

1355
00:53:11,710 --> 00:53:08,000
have all this early Christian stuff with

1356
00:53:14,530 --> 00:53:11,720
perd nc honor and proxy DS there's a lot

1357
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:14,540
also on on Paul's burial but let's just

1358
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:17,570
deal with Peter okay

1359
00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:19,450
so Peter is the last one to arrive

1360
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:22,400
really in this story and of course it's

1361
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:23,930
all based on what happened on Vatican

1362
00:53:28,900 --> 00:53:25,760
Hill very famous I'm sure a lot of your

1363
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:28,910
listeners will have been to Vatican and

1364
00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:31,850
and gone through the the actual Basilica

1365
00:53:35,980 --> 00:53:33,710
so he's regarded as the first bishop

1366
00:53:38,140 --> 00:53:35,990
around but we've now explained that he

1367
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:38,150
probably wasn't and he was executed

1368
00:53:44,050 --> 00:53:41,330
upside-down in AD 66 the corner to the

1369
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:44,060
latest chronology it was in prison in

1370
00:53:48,820 --> 00:53:46,160
January 1867 for nine months

1371
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:48,830
sorry arrived in 1866 I beg your pardon

1372
00:53:52,660 --> 00:53:51,050
it was in prison journey on 1867 very

1373
00:53:55,270 --> 00:53:52,670
right nine months and he was crucified

1374
00:53:58,490 --> 00:53:55,280
upside down on the 22nd of February 68

1375
00:54:02,000 --> 00:53:58,500
that's his martyrdom day he's

1376
00:54:04,700 --> 00:54:02,010
took place near Nero circus on Vatican

1377
00:54:06,650 --> 00:54:04,710
Hill so Caligula near a Nero had a

1378
00:54:08,839 --> 00:54:06,660
circus there not the the one you see

1379
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:08,849
today which is below the pallet honest

1380
00:54:13,220 --> 00:54:11,040
of what one is near Vatican Hill and he

1381
00:54:16,430 --> 00:54:13,230
was buried right next to a road called

1382
00:54:20,210 --> 00:54:16,440
via Cornelia OK which is where today we

1383
00:54:22,579 --> 00:54:20,220
see some Peter's Basilica Paul foot Paul

1384
00:54:24,050 --> 00:54:22,589
first arrived on their hand in 8061 two

1385
00:54:26,420 --> 00:54:24,060
either I'm a lot earlier than Peter and

1386
00:54:28,819 --> 00:54:26,430
then he went he went off to Spain

1387
00:54:31,010 --> 00:54:28,829
according to the legend it's not

1388
00:54:32,300 --> 00:54:31,020
documented but that's where he writes

1389
00:54:34,490 --> 00:54:32,310
he's intending to go in fact he's

1390
00:54:36,500 --> 00:54:34,500
calling into Rome on the way to Spain

1391
00:54:38,690 --> 00:54:36,510
and he goes off and them some people say

1392
00:54:41,030 --> 00:54:38,700
that he went off to Britain and came

1393
00:54:43,550 --> 00:54:41,040
back again Peter arrived as I say a lot

1394
00:54:45,890 --> 00:54:43,560
later after Paul had already ordained

1395
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:45,900
lioness as Bishop of Rome so he's coming

1396
00:54:50,660 --> 00:54:48,000
late to the to the the party as he were

1397
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:50,670
then Paul was beheaded on it that you

1398
00:54:56,599 --> 00:54:53,730
are joining the 25th and 1867 and Peter

1399
00:54:59,089 --> 00:54:56,609
then appointed lionesses successor who

1400
00:55:01,670 --> 00:54:59,099
was called Clement okay so he's the

1401
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:01,680
third Bishop well attrition tradition

1402
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:03,569
he's the third a Bishop of Rome after

1403
00:55:07,849 --> 00:55:05,280
Peter and lioness but in fact we really

1404
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:07,859
think he's the second Peter with Emma

1405
00:55:14,780 --> 00:55:11,520
martyred on February 22nd 80 68 and then

1406
00:55:16,609 --> 00:55:14,790
lioness was martyred and AD 70 6th and

1407
00:55:18,260 --> 00:55:16,619
Clement took her over from him as Bishop

1408
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,270
of Rome so that's the chronology of the

1409
00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:20,640
early period and you can see that here

1410
00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:23,730
in the in the recordings of the Catholic

1411
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:24,960
Church where you have Peters as the

1412
00:55:29,180 --> 00:55:26,730
first one then you have lioness and then

1413
00:55:32,420 --> 00:55:29,190
calamities actually Clementis in writing

1414
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:32,430
so they they've abbreviated to Klaas or

1415
00:55:38,660 --> 00:55:34,290
Politis and then he goes on from there

1416
00:55:40,670 --> 00:55:38,670
so paul ordains lioness lioness Peter

1417
00:55:42,620 --> 00:55:40,680
arrived in Rome much later

1418
00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:42,630
then Peter cannot be the first Bishop of

1419
00:55:45,309 --> 00:55:43,710
Rome because he's already there's

1420
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:45,319
already a Bishop of Rome when he arrives

1421
00:55:52,660 --> 00:55:49,410
then he had then he he never actually

1422
00:55:54,890 --> 00:55:52,670
appointed anybody and sorry he never

1423
00:55:56,540 --> 00:55:54,900
sorry what I'm trying to say is that the

1424
00:55:58,609 --> 00:55:56,550
actual Apostles themselves including

1425
00:56:00,349 --> 00:55:58,619
Paul they never became bishops of

1426
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:00,359
anywhere that wasn't their job to do

1427
00:56:04,579 --> 00:56:03,359
that their job was to appoint bishops so

1428
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:04,589
when we get to this thing in Matthew

1429
00:56:08,059 --> 00:56:05,490
16:18

1430
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:08,069
which basically says upon this rock I

1431
00:56:11,820 --> 00:56:10,079
will build my church it's a literal

1432
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:11,830
meaning so here is

1433
00:56:17,550 --> 00:56:16,090
the circus of Caligula Nero and if you

1434
00:56:19,830 --> 00:56:17,560
notice where it's located

1435
00:56:22,290 --> 00:56:19,840
he slow kated just to the left of this

1436
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:22,300
via Cornelia and there and the pagan

1437
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:24,010
cemetery was on the other side of the

1438
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:26,290
road just next to Vatican Hill that's

1439
00:56:31,650 --> 00:56:28,210
where Peter was buried when he came to

1440
00:56:33,540 --> 00:56:31,660
Rome so if we look at the Constantine's

1441
00:56:35,940 --> 00:56:33,550
Basilica which you see here in black

1442
00:56:38,550 --> 00:56:35,950
it's a very complicated diagram the red

1443
00:56:40,830 --> 00:56:38,560
is actually the the Renaissance Basilica

1444
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:40,840
that we see today but you'll snow t'ish

1445
00:56:46,530 --> 00:56:43,410
that the via Cornelia actually runs

1446
00:56:48,540 --> 00:56:46,540
right through the apse and to the side

1447
00:56:51,900 --> 00:56:48,550
of the apse just to the left side or the

1448
00:56:54,180 --> 00:56:51,910
south side of the high altar today okay

1449
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:54,190
so that's where the the road

1450
00:56:59,190 --> 00:56:56,530
Cornelia road was and therefore the high

1451
00:57:01,530 --> 00:56:59,200
altar it marks the spot where the burial

1452
00:57:03,180 --> 00:57:01,540
of Peter took place so it's just to the

1453
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:03,190
north and this was it this was

1454
00:57:07,590 --> 00:57:05,770
constructed in 83 to 6 there the Casa

1455
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:07,600
time Basilica so if you look at the

1456
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:09,370
vehicle earlier today it's still there

1457
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:11,890
it's the main street that leads up to

1458
00:57:18,540 --> 00:57:15,610
the Vatican 2 to some Peters and if you

1459
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:18,550
go inside what you see on the left side

1460
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:20,170
of that curtain we're not going the blue

1461
00:57:24,810 --> 00:57:22,240
shirt is standing leaning on it that's

1462
00:57:27,390 --> 00:57:24,820
where what via Cornelia ran along there

1463
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:27,400
and so you see the high altar down the

1464
00:57:34,350 --> 00:57:29,440
middle is actually just to the right

1465
00:57:38,810 --> 00:57:34,360
side of that road and it belies below

1466
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:41,000
where you have this dip this D shaped

1467
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:43,770
well and inside that D shaped well which

1468
00:57:48,350 --> 00:57:45,810
goes virtually underneath where the high

1469
00:57:51,950 --> 00:57:48,360
altar is located there is a little

1470
00:57:54,170 --> 00:57:51,960
shrine and the shrine covers a shaft

1471
00:57:56,330 --> 00:57:54,180
which goes down beneath the high altar

1472
00:57:58,910 --> 00:57:56,340
and in this little place it's where

1473
00:58:01,040 --> 00:57:58,920
bishops put their bishops who are about

1474
00:58:03,980 --> 00:58:01,050
to become bishops they put their mitres

1475
00:58:06,110 --> 00:58:03,990
in this little recess above the shaft

1476
00:58:08,540 --> 00:58:06,120
West Peters grave is to have it blessed

1477
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:08,550
before they are they become bishops the

1478
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:11,250
next day this is called the Pollyannish

1479
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:13,410
and you can see it there so all the

1480
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:15,690
wrote the bishops of Rome or the Pope's

1481
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:18,000
are buried behind this photograph in

1482
00:58:21,650 --> 00:58:19,920
there in the Crypt and it goes directly

1483
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:21,660
towards this shaft that you can see

1484
00:58:27,740 --> 00:58:25,200
where that figure is located we look at

1485
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:27,750
a plan that area that D shaped area is

1486
00:58:32,780 --> 00:58:30,210
called the Confessor and there is the

1487
00:58:34,970 --> 00:58:32,790
Palio niche where the shaft goes down to

1488
00:58:37,100 --> 00:58:34,980
where so Peters grave is located and

1489
00:58:38,060 --> 00:58:37,110
behind it is a Clementine Chapel you

1490
00:58:41,210 --> 00:58:38,070
don't worry about that

1491
00:58:43,340 --> 00:58:41,220
and right there is a grave which has

1492
00:58:44,990 --> 00:58:43,350
though as a on the lid of the grave on

1493
00:58:47,180 --> 00:58:45,000
the stone little grave is mentioned a

1494
00:58:49,010 --> 00:58:47,190
person called Linus which would appear

1495
00:58:50,990 --> 00:58:49,020
to be the first Bishop of Rome that

1496
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:51,000
seems to be his burial place close to

1497
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:52,970
where Peter was buried

1498
00:58:56,570 --> 00:58:55,200
remember he dies after Peter Chris

1499
00:58:58,730 --> 00:58:56,580
Peters executed so we look at a

1500
00:59:01,970 --> 00:58:58,740
cross-section now you can see the big

1501
00:59:04,370 --> 00:59:01,980
modern or the Renaissance Basilica there

1502
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:04,380
and beneath it the red section is the

1503
00:59:09,140 --> 00:59:07,170
vaults where the the popes are buried

1504
00:59:11,540 --> 00:59:09,150
and to the left side under the high

1505
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:11,550
altar you see the area with the stairs

1506
00:59:15,830 --> 00:59:13,410
going down and the location directly

1507
00:59:17,450 --> 00:59:15,840
underneath that which is where Sir

1508
00:59:21,380 --> 00:59:17,460
Peters grave is located and below that

1509
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:21,390
and the lower level is the pagan Roman

1510
00:59:25,490 --> 00:59:24,210
cemetery of Vatican Hill and in there

1511
00:59:27,890 --> 00:59:25,500
when they excavated it they actually

1512
00:59:30,380 --> 00:59:27,900
found a street so we're going to go and

1513
00:59:32,300 --> 00:59:30,390
have a look at that quickly the

1514
00:59:34,460 --> 00:59:32,310
excavations began in 1939 after the

1515
00:59:36,770 --> 00:59:34,470
interment of pope pius xi so when they

1516
00:59:39,650 --> 00:59:36,780
buried him they started digging around

1517
00:59:42,110 --> 00:59:39,660
and they found that there was this the

1518
00:59:44,090 --> 00:59:42,120
street if you like of tombs underneath

1519
00:59:47,570 --> 00:59:44,100
and you could see the red there that is

1520
00:59:49,940 --> 00:59:47,580
the road just to the south of that well

1521
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:49,950
you get there via Cornelia and Amelie to

1522
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:51,760
the north of it is this cemetery here

1523
00:59:56,910 --> 00:59:54,880
which is where Peter was buried

1524
00:59:58,560 --> 00:59:56,920
and this is what's underneath that

1525
01:00:00,000 --> 00:59:58,570
Peters today you could see the street

1526
01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:00,010
here with the tombs on either side which

1527
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:03,040
are Roman tombs and the complex were in

1528
01:00:07,410 --> 01:00:05,050
stood in is this one which is at the end

1529
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:07,420
right underneath thee the high altar and

1530
01:00:14,010 --> 01:00:09,730
there's the via Cornelia again and where

1531
01:00:16,830 --> 01:00:14,020
Peter was buried is right there in AD 68

1532
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:16,840
and above it was a courtyard a secret

1533
01:00:23,570 --> 01:00:18,970
courtyard where the Christians used to

1534
01:00:26,130 --> 01:00:23,580
come and serve Mass next to Peters gray

1535
01:00:27,420 --> 01:00:26,140
there's various other objects that was

1536
01:00:29,250 --> 01:00:27,430
found the most important which is this

1537
01:00:30,330 --> 01:00:29,260
red wall here you see which is the first

1538
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:30,340
thing they found when they actually

1539
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:33,250
located it and the gaius trophy which is

1540
01:00:40,110 --> 01:00:36,370
where the this the mass service was held

1541
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:40,120
above sand Peters gray and then there's

1542
01:00:44,340 --> 01:00:41,770
a graffiti wall which is built right

1543
01:00:46,860 --> 01:00:44,350
next to this this place which is the

1544
01:00:48,690 --> 01:00:46,870
clue that showed us where the actual

1545
01:00:50,490 --> 01:00:48,700
bones are that Peter will located this

1546
01:00:52,620 --> 01:00:50,500
is what the trophy looked like in

1547
01:00:55,590 --> 01:00:52,630
ancient times and it's immediately above

1548
01:00:58,410 --> 01:00:55,600
the grave and it's immediately below the

1549
01:01:00,000 --> 01:00:58,420
high altar now that graffiti wall you

1550
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:00,010
can see on the left hand side there is

1551
01:01:05,370 --> 01:01:02,890
covered in inscriptions of which one of

1552
01:01:08,970 --> 01:01:05,380
them is very important because it says

1553
01:01:11,700 --> 01:01:08,980
Petrus any which means Peters is here

1554
01:01:13,890 --> 01:01:11,710
and so they they punched a hole in the

1555
01:01:16,980 --> 01:01:13,900
wall and they found that inside the wall

1556
01:01:19,460 --> 01:01:16,990
there was a lined box and inside that

1557
01:01:21,990 --> 01:01:19,470
box of line there was a set of bones

1558
01:01:23,970 --> 01:01:22,000
covered in a purple cloth with gold

1559
01:01:25,770 --> 01:01:23,980
thread now purple as you know is the

1560
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:25,780
Empress color so it's something that's

1561
01:01:30,270 --> 01:01:28,210
regardless for somebody who's very very

1562
01:01:32,130 --> 01:01:30,280
important and they believe that Peters

1563
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:32,140
bones were moved originally out of his

1564
01:01:37,220 --> 01:01:35,170
grave and placed in hiding in this wall

1565
01:01:40,260 --> 01:01:37,230
in order to protect it during a later

1566
01:01:42,690 --> 01:01:40,270
pogrom or whatever it was a persecution

1567
01:01:43,260 --> 01:01:42,700
to stop them from taking the bones of

1568
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:43,270
some Peter

1569
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:45,490
so to summarize the bones are found in

1570
01:01:50,070 --> 01:01:47,530
marble line lock us inside the graffiti

1571
01:01:52,650 --> 01:01:50,080
wall wrapped in a purple cloth with

1572
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:52,660
golden thread the bones were of a man of

1573
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:54,400
his late 60s which is about right for

1574
01:01:59,460 --> 01:01:56,650
Peter he was about 68 when he was

1575
01:02:01,680 --> 01:01:59,470
crucified and in June 1968

1576
01:02:03,210 --> 01:02:01,690
Marguerita guard du chí who is one of

1577
01:02:05,070 --> 01:02:03,220
the great archaeologists in this project

1578
01:02:07,290 --> 01:02:05,080
declared the bones widows as in Peter

1579
01:02:08,339 --> 01:02:07,300
and that is now they the view of the

1580
01:02:10,349 --> 01:02:08,349
Christian the Catholic

1581
01:02:12,420 --> 01:02:10,359
Church today so here's a cross section

1582
01:02:14,549 --> 01:02:12,430
you can see here very clearly you have

1583
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:14,559
the current altar there and you have the

1584
01:02:19,229 --> 01:02:17,170
the floor that you walk on today in the

1585
01:02:21,630 --> 01:02:19,239
Basilica and beneath that you have the

1586
01:02:23,999 --> 01:02:21,640
burial place of the Pope's and you have

1587
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:24,009
the original altar of Pope Gregory the

1588
01:02:29,009 --> 01:02:26,890
first and below that you have the Gaius

1589
01:02:31,109 --> 01:02:29,019
trophy this is this this place where the

1590
01:02:32,910 --> 01:02:31,119
first masses were held and right below

1591
01:02:35,519 --> 01:02:32,920
that is the original grave of Peter

1592
01:02:38,009 --> 01:02:35,529
right next to the red wall so all these

1593
01:02:41,279 --> 01:02:38,019
things are following this idea that on

1594
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:41,289
this church on this on this rock I will

1595
01:02:47,609 --> 01:02:43,690
build my church literally on the bones

1596
01:02:49,710 --> 01:02:47,619
of Peter the man they will build the sim

1597
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:49,720
Peter's Church the the center if you

1598
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:51,970
like of early Christianity and those

1599
01:02:59,069 --> 01:02:54,970
bones some of them have been placed in

1600
01:03:01,680 --> 01:02:59,079
this bronze casket in 1969 and our lying

1601
01:03:04,319 --> 01:03:01,690
in the private apartments of the of the

1602
01:03:06,359 --> 01:03:04,329
Pope today and in fact arm our Pope

1603
01:03:08,940 --> 01:03:06,369
today Pope Francis brought them out with

1604
01:03:11,069 --> 01:03:08,950
the very first time and displayed the

1605
01:03:14,489 --> 01:03:11,079
box in public on them with the November

1606
01:03:17,279 --> 01:03:14,499
the 4th 2013 so it is now acknowledged

1607
01:03:19,829 --> 01:03:17,289
by the Christian Church by their by the

1608
01:03:24,569 --> 01:03:19,839
Catholic Church to be the authentic

1609
01:03:25,249 --> 01:03:24,579
bones of st. Peter so that's how it all

1610
01:03:28,370 --> 01:03:25,259
works

1611
01:03:31,019 --> 01:03:28,380
I'm glad you we managed to get that in

1612
01:03:32,549 --> 01:03:31,029
what I'm I'm back to normal settings

1613
01:03:33,450 --> 01:03:32,559
we're back to normal settings there

1614
01:03:35,039 --> 01:03:33,460
that's a tremendous amount of

1615
01:03:39,269 --> 01:03:35,049
information to go through when it's it's

1616
01:03:41,069 --> 01:03:39,279
it to know that even you know 2,000

1617
01:03:44,099 --> 01:03:41,079
years later we still have that that

1618
01:03:45,870 --> 01:03:44,109
connection to the past and you know this

1619
01:03:47,819 --> 01:03:45,880
is obviously different than the usual

1620
01:03:49,859 --> 01:03:47,829
subject matter that I I deal with on the

1621
01:03:51,569 --> 01:03:49,869
show a little more recent ancient

1622
01:03:55,319 --> 01:03:51,579
history but it's still not quite

1623
01:03:57,150 --> 01:03:55,329
fascinating just because there is a more

1624
01:03:59,130 --> 01:03:57,160
recent contemporary legend that is

1625
01:04:01,489 --> 01:03:59,140
connected to that historical past so it

1626
01:04:03,479 --> 01:04:01,499
you know you feel a little closer to it

1627
01:04:05,009 --> 01:04:03,489
because you can actually have the

1628
01:04:06,799 --> 01:04:05,019
verification so I want to thank you very

1629
01:04:09,690 --> 01:04:06,809
much for for bringing us through that

1630
01:04:10,890 --> 01:04:09,700
but it's great to do it and maybe if we

1631
01:04:12,900 --> 01:04:10,900
do another show I can tell you the

1632
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:12,910
Spanish story behind the Holy Grail we

1633
01:04:15,900 --> 01:04:14,559
can continue it then at another time

1634
01:04:17,609 --> 01:04:15,910
that would be fair that's not too

1635
01:04:19,410 --> 01:04:17,619
distant into the future maybe fairly

1636
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:19,420
soon that would that would be fantastic

1637
01:04:25,309 --> 01:04:21,930
but we'll do better than then 18 months

1638
01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:25,319
in between shows good excellent oh it's

1639
01:04:28,430 --> 01:04:26,880
been lovely to talk to you well it has

1640
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:28,440
been as well I'm just gonna see if I can

1641
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:29,970
actually get the main camera switched

1642
01:04:34,339 --> 01:04:32,880
back here and as is tradition I'm gonna

1643
01:04:39,140 --> 01:04:34,349
see if the outro music actually plays

1644
01:04:41,180 --> 01:04:39,150
and then then I can get us out it

1645
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:41,190
usually takes a second I I originally

1646
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:45,930
had done a very very slow incline on the

1647
01:04:51,140 --> 01:04:47,970
on the in note there we go it's plain

1648
01:04:52,430 --> 01:04:51,150
fantastic so ladies and gentlemen uh you

1649
01:04:54,829 --> 01:04:52,440
know thank you very much for joining us

1650
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:54,839
on this very early edition of den of

1651
01:04:59,240 --> 01:04:57,210
lore I know for anybody who's watching

1652
01:05:01,069 --> 01:04:59,250
on YouTube the stream did not work I

1653
01:05:02,420 --> 01:05:01,079
will have the video uploaded right after

1654
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:02,430
the show and if you're watching on

1655
01:05:08,620 --> 01:05:04,770
Facebook again if you're just catching

1656
01:05:11,390 --> 01:05:08,630
us now you can join us afterwards and

1657
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:11,400
re-watch it from the beginning all right

1658
01:05:17,210 --> 01:05:13,890
my name is Chris George Zuger I this has

1659
01:05:18,740 --> 01:05:17,220
been a morning with mr. David Rohl thank